Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey there everybody, figured this might be a good place to ask. I'm wondering if anyone here knows of any luthiers or guitar companies that may be hiring in the US. Did an apprenticeship and designed/scratch-built an archtop back in the fall, been skating from crappy job to crappy job, wanting to actually apply my skills and do what I love.

Thanks for your time.

I don/t know of any jobs. Perhaps you can try local music stores that need a repair tech, Offer to work part-time or on commission, to get your foot in the door.

Lots of guitars and other stringed instruments in your area(s)... 1,352 guitar pickers in Nashville according to John Sebastian when he counted back in the 60s . There's a bunch in Ashevegas too. Somebody's got to make and fix them. Keep your crappy job, hang a sign and get started. Establish yourself and become the next big name.

Gary at Bee3 Vintage in Asheville has the largest network I know of for the Southeast. Try to contact him about repair jobs he may know about. His show is coming up in August in Charlotte. A few hundred dealers display there. It may be worth attending and introducing yourself. Business cards are cheap.

The gibson factory in Nashville is almost always hiring. Kinda hard to get an interview, but worth a shot. Also, if you are looking for anything and don't care what the starting pay is, you may contact Batson Guitars in Nashville. Good friends of mine. Last I talked to them, they were thinking about hiring some help.

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You love having a work station on a factory assembly line? There's a reason the Gibson factory is always hiring. They are reputed to be an awful employer.

Try for a repair shop gig.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

I have tried Gibson a few times, even taken their 2-3 hour pre-employment screening test (without a SINGLE question about guitars or making them), and never heard back. Turned me off.

And Chris, I've spoken with Grant before, and they are not looking right now. I've tried Joe Glaser's repair shop, Gruhn's and some others and bubkes. To be honest I'm willing to relocate to just about anywhere, I just wanna get my hands on some guitars!

In the meantime I've been doing set-ups, pickup swapping, and various other small jobs for friends just for the experience.

Finding work without training will be difficult to say the least. Maybe you should start looking at luthier schools to get at least a basic working knowledge of construction and repair . Companies like Martin , Gibson are production facilities and don't really hire luthiers . I remember Chris Martin in a speech saying they don't want luthiers they want workers .
i wish you luck but getting some training will make you more valuable. It look me years to get to where I am now as it did most of us. Bryan Gallop has a repair school and Charles Fox. It would be an investment and you may be able to start your own business after some practical experience. An apprenticeship take a few years of time investment .

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Hi there. Like I said in my original post, I studied with a luthier in asheville, during which time I designed and built an archtop for my self, and helped him with two flat-tops, and carving new tops for some Epiphone byrdlands, along with some other repairs. So that said, I do have some experience and training. Since finishing that learning experience though, I've just been slowly collecting tools and wood, but don't currently have the space to build on my own.

The small Benedetto factory in Savannah might suit you if you can get it.

But understand that no factory, and that includes 10-person boutique shops, is looking to hire luthier wannabees. They are looking for factory worker wannabees. Don't say you want to learn all the jobs because you want to be a guitar maker. What they will hear is that you are someone who will leave and go into competition with them after they have invested in training you.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

I don't want to sound negative but the short experience is not enough . Most shops don't have the time to apprentice . 3 guitars isn't as much as you think. If you can get into a small shop and apply yourself to each and every menial task the Master may show you more .
Have you used Hot Hide Glue , done and mixed French Polish . Any experience with Fish glue ? Can you carve necks and bracing Do you understand how tops are voiced and bracing. Can you look at a piece of wood and know what species it is. How are your inlay skills ? Do you know finishing with Lacquer ?
There are not many luthiers making a living at this so you are looking at finding something that is most difficult . I do wish you well and hope you find what you are looking for . I was lucky to find mentors that helped me learn . It took me 7 years to be able to make a living at this .
You can start by buying old guitars and take them apart and fix them . If you want it bad enough and work hard at it you can make it but expect to take time . I don't want to be trying to kill your spirits but you need to know that it isn't easy and it takes dedication . Learn all you can and find someone that will help .

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I asked about getting an internship/apprenticeship a while back. I think in our current recession, builders are swamped with these kinds of job searches.

I think the only way to do what you want is to work a crap job and learn the craft on your own. Create a database of friends and acquaintances and let them know they should come to you to get their instruments fixed. Tell them the repair shop horror stories. Tell them once they give up their acoustic for a neck reset, they won't get it back for 6-12 months. Do it faster and better.

See if you can get a repair deposit and use that to buy the tools to fix their gits.

I wish you luck, bro. I hope the folks in Washington will get their heads out of their butts on both sides of the isle.

Here's the deal I offered every potential apprentice who wanted to learn about guitar repair and construction from me. Keep in mind I required them to prove they had certain skills, knowledge, and attitude before I even considered taking them on. I even had them bring in their friends, and if they didn't pass my sniff test - too bad, so sad.

1. You will work for me a minimum of 36 hours a week for one year with no pay. Why? Because you will slow me down while I show you how I want things done, and in that year I will earn less because of my investment of time in you. Don't like it? Hit the road.

2. You will pay me promptly for any of my tools, supplies, parts, and client instruments you lose, break, or ruin. Promptly! Or the program is over.

3. During the one year program you will build one instrument of your choosing under my tutelage for me to sell to defray the expense of teaching you. You will build with quality and pride of workmanship, or else.

4. At the end of the one year program, if I deem you acceptable, I will hire you for Kansas minimum wage (at the time it was $3.65 per hour), all raises commensurate on your quality of work.

I had 3 excellent candidates begin, and only 1 completed the program to be hired. None of them are working in luthiery today, although the one who completed the program still keeps in touch with me 20 years later. All could have been top-notch luthiers if they had stuck it out.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

"36 hours a week for one year with no pay"
I guess if you're already rich, retired, or working weekends. That's ridiculous. Am I missing something here? Are you giving them room and board?

Seems guitar buiding is a lot like playing music.
A lot of work,
and no money.........
Unless you are lucky!
Or talented,
or, something...

Actually luthiery is a lot more difficult. I was a professional musician for 20 years. At least I could teach private lessons, and for 9 years I had a gig teaching guitar and improvisation in a large music school. Good year bad year in terms of touring/recording, that gig secured minimum income and health coverage for me (and the other teachers, most of whom were touring musicians).

Small individual builders can rarely be in the position to hire an apprentice. First there is the liability issue, it's a big one. Employee insurance is expensive. Then most builders are literally pulling themselves by the bootstraps, that means no money to hire and no time available to show the craft to somebody.
Lastly this is not a job for everybody. There is talent. Then the most important attributes for the aspiring builder are stamina and focus. I know few people who can work 70 to 80 hours / week for years with little financial reward, all the while keeping their sanity (and their spouse's).

I worked in a well known small production shop until it was time to move on. Wages were inversely proportionate to the experience gained. And I gained a lot of experience! I met great people too. For the gifted and naturally curious student this can be an incommensurable step forward. It also can be a dead end for the ones getting stuck there.
But, I was lucky to work in most stations, at least for a while, and I was always doing a few different tasks at the same time. Most production shops are more akin to what a small builder does (on a larger scale) than factories. However, cleaning up and sanding 9 braced tops and backs in a row can be tedious…

As far as I know the best path to one of those production shops is to attend one of the few luthiery schools here in the US. This is where employers are recruiting young inexperienced aspiring luthiers. At least out of the school most will be familiar with tooling, machines, jigging and so on. You need to have at least one instrument to show out of the school. Expect poor wages and no prospect for better ones. It is not exploitation, it is just the way economics work.

Factory work lies in another dimension, guitar factories are as exciting as canning facilities and probably pay less.

String instruments repair in my mind is something else, and has probably better prospects in terms of social position. Maybe some repair guys are hiring more readily than builders.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

36 hrs a week will show the commitment and as for the teaching time , how can you price that ? To become skilled you need to spend about 10,000 hours at anything to really master something. That is why apprenticeships are often 4 years. A trade takes a considerable amount of skill . Being able to do a pro finish is not something you will just lather on some finish and presto. That alone takes a long time . Inlay and truly understanding the braces and how they function . Learning to nuances of a good set up takes a long time .
There is so much to learn and accomplish . Understanding how to set a neck , and then how to reset one , is an whole new ball game . If you want to do it , you have to figure out how . Today with liability insurance and workmans comp it would cost a fortune to train . As for production plants, you will be come skilled at a few aspects of construction and may make a living , but you are not a luthier . Martin had about 600 workers and of them only a hand full actually make a guitar from start to finish .
It sounds bleak but we are trying to get you prepared for the commitment it takes . Not all luthiers make a living at this . Many are hobbiests luthiers that ply the trade on off regular work hours or use it to supplement an income.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Hardly rich (my best year was less than $80,000).
Retired? Not then, but I am now.
Working weekends? I put in 70 to 80 hour weeks in my shop, so yeah - I worked weekends.
Room and board? I bought them a nice sit-down lunch once a week.

All these candidates were living with their parents, and all were gigging guitarists.
Their living expenses were low, and they had money.
They got an education and good training for no financial outlay.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I agree 10,000 hours opens the door but an expert takes many years. I did this for 10 years before going out on my own . The investment in time and money may never be returned but I did get a nice shop , lots of tools and I can make a living. What more can I say.
I am still learning and to be honest , the 10,000 hours helps you to start to learn

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I would be happy if someone took me in as an apprentice... no matter what the condition might be.

It's all about doing what you really want to do. You can spend your whole life working at jobs that you really don't want to do, but the only reason you worked there is because of either money or prestige (Asians do this a lot), or you can do what you really want to do irrespective of the wage you earn.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

I dont think Chris Pile's apprenticeship structure was unfair at all. It was certainly not aimed at most of us on this forum since most of us have children and a spouse. And at minimum, we all have bills to pay that wont disappear for a year. But if you were 17, or 18 and living at home and loved to build guitars, it is a no brainer.
I often wish I had discovered guitar building when I was much younger, but I didnt, and I am only 38. However, if I had, and I lived in Kansas, I would have jumped at the opportunity to learn with an experienced luthier. There is no substitute for a good teacher and you can not buy experience. You can not even put a price on the one to one guidance an apprentice would get working side by side with Chris. What does the short lutherie course at Red Rocks cost? Do you get constant one to one instruction there?
Cumpiano charges $5,000 for a two week class. If Chris Pile charged a commensurate fee, the one year "course" would cost $130,000, but he taught it for free. Actually, he lost money when he taught as he pointed out.
Looks like a pretty decent deal to me when you think of it this way. If you just look at it as slave labor and disregard the amount you learn for free, it looks pretty lousy, but it is a bargain in my opinion.

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

Dee
I spent 8 years and my parents and I spent about 200K to be able to hang out my veterinary shingle. Vet school expected me to go to class, study, be on call and stay overnight on alternate nights....they didn't pay me...I paid them. (and believe me, a vet's income isn't commesurate with that level of investment). School/learning properly is time-consuming and expensive. Cliche' maybe, but if it's easy (or cheap) anybody could do it.

Build and repair in your free time (after all, you say you love it. Why not make it your hobby as you learn), and study or work towards a better than crappy job to support your hobby. Then, as you learn and get better, your hobby can become a jobby (hobby that pays a little along the way), and finally, you'll have a proper stake to go off and be a luthier. But if luthiery doesn't work out for you, doing it this way allows you to work at something better than a crappy job.

Good luck. You'll get there if you really want it, but there are gonna be a lot of dues to pay along the way!

Sorry, that response should have been sent for "Thomas" not Dee

Chris's scheme sounds like a bargain to me... think about it. In the UK there are maybe two full time courses that you can go on that last maybe 3 years - and you have to pay. Other options are the short 4 week courses etc that charge $8000 or so + you have to add your accommodation and subsistence to this...

Sure, as already pointed out, Chris's scheme is impossible to do if already in a position where you have responsibilty for family and bills etc, but its not aimed at those folk, but designed to push and test the committment and ..TEACH....

I like many, who love this as a hobby, have dreams of doing it full time ...without the financial challenge this would bring! ... and also daydream and ask the 'what -if' question had I done this at 17/18 ...some 23 years ago...where would I be now? Depends on any talent that may or may not have realised its potential... who knows, not even sure the talent is there... afterall it requires so many skills - not only mastering the the woodworking skills, but mastering the mysteries of the 'tonal' variables - and building instruments that not only look perfect but have a sound that appeals to a broard range of players...

Dont want to put you off if you want to go for it... but a deal like Chris' is actually VERY GOOD.

I like the sound of Chris' apprenticeship model as well. I was fortunate to have a similar opportunity with a violin maker many years ago. About those hours, the sit down meal was once a month at Denny's, but I did get a can of beans for lunch every day, not heated, just an opened can. However after a few months when I was competent at rehairs, I got half of the rehair $$. At least that paid gas to get to the shop. I was single and it was a good time for me to do that, I also got some family support. Although I did not get into violin repair, I did learn alot and now that I am back for some lutherie time, I am remembering what I learned.

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Wow. Thanks for all the support, guys.

To fill in the gaps (should anyone care), my first apprentice was a natural, but he thought it would be exciting. He found out color sanding finishes between coats and polishing frets wasn't so fun. Too bad, because his skills were stellar! He quit after 5 months.

My second was an eager and motivated young fellow who got a young lady pregnant and had to get a real job. He almost completed the year.

My third was a troubled kid, but he was searching for a way out of the stupor of his college drinking and doping habits. He soon appreciated the rigor and stability of the environment I created for him. Honest to goodness... his mother called and thanked me "for getting him to use a fork when he ate"!
I guess he had some rebellion issues to work out. Anyway, he completed the course and worked another 18 months for me before entering the ministry. He is now married with kids, and thanks me for my guidance every time we speak.

I also had a young man ask for a job right after graduating from Red Wing Vo-Tech's luthiery program, and while I would love to have a skilled and knowledgeable guy in the shop - he was married with two kids. He found a great job in town working for the school district repairing their violin family instruments, and we became good friends!

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince