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I've been searching the internet and various guitar building forums trying to learn how to get good results using a Gramil and chisel to route binding channels. I've chosen this approach at this time because It's cost effective. There are a lot of references to using this tool on various forums and blogs, but none of them really show or outline the process in detail. I found only one video on youtube of a builder who used what looked like the Sloan purfling cutter on a electric build that was helpful. Oh, I also viewed a video of Jose Romanillos which wasn't detailed at all, but very interesting. He seemed highly skilled. Are there any tutorials out there?

I've read comments from builders such as "you have to be highly skilled..." or " ...It's not for the faint at heart" which just makes me more nervous. Also I've read comments that It is very simple. I'm confused. I know that some builders use the gramil to score the lines before routing to avoid tearout. In the future I would like to cut binding channels using a laminate trimmer with one of those universal binding rigs, but It's not in the budget right now, and I'm not sure It could be used on my current build which is a Weissenborn-Style guitar. so, my question is, is It Really That difficult? If I do mess up, is there room to recover?

I should also mention that I ordered the LMI Schneider Gramil, and I'm trying to get my chisel nice and sharp! Thanks.

Ron

I've done a few with the LMI gramil. I really enjoy it, but it's much slower than routing and I haven't gotten as good results by hand yet as with routing. For me the biggest challenge was keeping the bottom of the channel where the binding sits flat and even at the edge.

Make sure to keep the cutting blade of the gramil sharp, and take your time while taking shallow cuts. You have to work with the grain of the sides while you are cutting them away with the chisel or you can end up causing a crack that runs out of the binding area and into the real sides.

Also, you can really scratch up your soundboard with the gramil, so be aware of that too.

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Evan McCartney

Not hard for me, and my chisel ain't even that sharp. I've only done one, but it went very well. I would be much more afraid to do it with a router setup, because then if anything goes wrong, there could be mass destruction before you know what happened. At least with the gramil, you can stop before it gets too bad

My procedure is:
1. Score into the plate as deep as you can. Take lots of passes, increasing the amount of exposed blade each time. Especially the first couple passes, you want the blade to slide effortlessly along just to start the groove that will guide it as you go deeper. Also, make sure you always go with the grain, rather than just going around in a circle.
2. Chisel off material down to the score depth (also can use the gramil coming in from the side for this)
3. Repeat step 1, until you make it through the plate to the edge of the rib.
4. Score into the rib from the side, gramil registered on the plate surface, as deep as you can.
5. Use the chisel to split the rib material off from the linings. The score mark causes it to split off nicely, forming a slightly rough ledge.
6. Use the chisel to smooth the ledge.

For purfling, repeat the first three steps, but don't go quite all the way through the plate.

Always keep the bevel side of the gramil's blade facing the wood that will be removed later. Makes cleaner edges.

Make sure you have the blade on the curved side of the gramil while you're in the waist when scoring into the plates. Away from the waist, you can use curved or flat. Flat is maybe a little more stable, but you still have to be careful to keep it rotated just right as you go around the curves of the body. The flat side of the gramil is mostly useful when registering against the plate surface, scoring into the rib.

One of the more fiddly parts is making shims to set the depth on the gramil. I just tested on scrap, trial-and-error sanding little wood chips until I got to the correct depth. Then you can stick the shim between the body and blade of the gramil when tightening it down to set consistent depth in seconds

Hi evanmelstad,

Thanks for those tips. I'm sure they will be very helpful. Perhaps you can help me understand one thing that I'm confused about. LMI states on their website the following:

"Use the flat side of the tool on all binding surfaces with the exception of the waist and cutaway areas, where the curved section should bear against the surface. The flat side of the blade should always be toward the side of the material where you want your cleanest cut"

I don't understand why you can't use the tool on the binding surface in the waist area. I understand that you use the flat side of the blade on the side where you want a clean cut, which is where the binding sits, but how are you suppose to score the waist. Can you explain that to me? Thanks

-Ron

Hi Ron
do you have the links for those binding videos handy ?
im still holding back making one till i see whats what
Thanks tomas

Hi Dennis,
Thanks for chiming in. I see you addressed scoring the waist while I was posting, and I must admit I still don't get It. You provided detailed instructions and I appreciate you taking the time to do so. Lots of good tips, I just have to wrap my head around approaching the waist. Keeping the bevel side of the blade in the waist area I understand because It's the same thing with the LMI rosette cutter which I also own.

I'm not going to use purfling just 1/4" maple binding .080 How do I score the top for the binding that I will be using?

Thank you,
Ron

The Body of the tool has two surfaces one curved one flat

"Use the flat side of the Black body of the tool on all convex binding surfaces with the exception of the concave waist and cutaway areas, where the curved section Of the black body should bear against the surface. The flat side of the blade should always be toward the side of the material where you want your cleanest cut"

As to the blade orientation im not sure i've always used it flat side to the body as recommended bit i did rehone it as i found it too thick and too shallow

Hi Thomas,
Yes I do

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHpQLbiaqkA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8iZBACWSDQ

Re-honing sounds like a good idea, I find it too shallow as well.

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Evan McCartney

Hi Steve,
Now I understand that the body of the tool has a flat and convex side. In the LMI description of the tool that was not made clear. I thought they were referring to the blade orientation.

One last thing that I'm unclear about is: If I'm just applying 1/4" binding (no purfling) as mentioned above, I score the the sides the height of the binding, also do I have to score the top plate .080 (binding thickness) from the top's edge? Thanks everyone, you came through big time.

ron

Hi Steve,
Now I understand that the body of the tool has a flat and convex side. In the LMI description of the tool that was not made clear. I thought they were referring to the blade orientation. Thanks Steve for making that clear for me to understand.

One last thing that I'm unclear about is: If I'm just applying 1/4" binding (no purfling) as mentioned above, I score the the sides the height of the binding, also do I have to score the top plate .080 (binding thickness) from the top's edge?

Thanks everyone, you came through big time.

ron

Right. Score and chisel your way through the top, then score the side and split it off from the linings. Hopefully it will come loose without too much trouble... now that I think about it, I was using reverse kerf linings, so if your linings have a continuous surface that the side is glued to, the joint may be so strong that the glue won't break easily, or even peel fibers out of the lining wood rather than splitting off cleanly. If that's the case, you might have to repeatedly score and chisel away the whole height of the binding.

Also, I use hide glue, which is very brittle... probably another factor in easy removal of side material.

Thanks again Dennis for clearing that up. So you recommend scoring the top first. Any particular reason I should do It in that order?
ron

Always use the bevel side of the Graml blade on the waste side of the cut. The flat side gives a more finished edge. Set the depth to the depth of your purfling, if you are cutting a purfling channel. When scoring the side, be careful not to let the Graml blade follow the grain. It's a difficult cut, sometimes. Start with light passes, then deepen them on subsequent passes. Another option is to make yourself a scraper blade for your side cuts. It cuts a bit cleaner and does not follow the grain like a knife type blade does. It's not hard to make one out of an old jigsaw blade. Here is a picture of the one I made on my first guitar.


I cut all binding and purfling channels with a cutter I made and a chisel. It's not hard, just tedious.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I never understood why LMI uses the double bevels blades on the Schneider cutters. If i knew how to go about Re-honing the blade I probably would.

Glad to hear that the process of cutting the binding is tedious and not hard.

Thanks Waddy,
Ron

The "double bevel" is actually a single bevel on a pointed blade, designed to cut in both directions. That blade works extremely well in soft woods, where a scraper would not work at all, but would only make a mess. I used a similar blade I made, also from a jigsaw blade, for cutting all my top purfling channels, and I also used it on my back. The scraper works best on the sides, where you are cutting along the grain, but the grain may drift away from the line of the cut. This drift causes a beveled blade to try to follow the drift, and it is harder to control. However, if you start with light strokes, and work carefully, you can overcome that drift.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

You are a brave man, I salute you!

On my current (and first build) after spending 4 months building the body from scratch, the last thing I wanted to do was mess it up on the binding step. I considered the gramil, but in the end, I chickened out and sprung for the Stew Mac Tru-Channel rig/Bosch Colt router.

This is good info, I guess I should have read the instructions. I cut the channels with a router, but use the gramil to score the edge to help prevent prevent tear-out. The problem I always have is the gramil rocking when scribing around the bottom. turning the black body around would be a simple way to prevent this.

The flat side of the blade should be on the inside with the bevel towards the edge. With the blade that way, it tends to pull the gramil snugly against the side.

-jd

I said this before, but the bevel is always to the waste side. The part you are going to remove. The flat side is always to the clean edge.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

At one time I was just like you. I was considering doing my binding that way. I was looking at the price of a binding machine or even just a router with the appropriate attachments and bit sets. another consideration that made me pause was the thought of taking a high speed power tool to my delicate work.

in the end i bought a porter cable router, for $70. and I made a binding jig myself out of scrap wood, sliding drawer hardware, and some nuts and bolts. i used a flush cut router bit and swapped out the bearing, to cut a channel that is 1/16" deep. the cost of the bit was about $17 at woodcraft. i have to believe that the time I spent building this jig was about the same as doing channels by hand with a gramil on one guitar. and my results so far doing binding on four guitars have been flawless.

total cost for my whole binding setup is about $100, and that includes the router which is a very key tool, which I use for lots of other stuff, as well.

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"...you have to get over your strict adherence to your largely imagined notion of absolute perfection..."

yep, just agreeing with you using different words.

-jd

My first binding job was done using the LMI gramil. It went alright, but extremely slow. The results were decent, but certainly not great. I found keeping the correct angle between ledge and wall difficult. After that one, I took the time to build a William's style binding jig. WELL worth the time and expense. Routing precise, clean binding channels is now almost idiot proof, which is good knowing the operator, and takes minutes instead of hours or days. If you plan on building more that 2 guitars, I would say you should seriously consider biting the bullet and buying or building a binding jig.

That said, there is nothing wrong with buying the gramil and using it to bind your first guitar (or your 500th). With practice, I'm sure making accurate binding channels by hand would take much less time. I would say I learned a great deal from doing my first that way. Plus, it is nice to have the gramil even if you later get a binding jig setup because, as has been mentioned, you can use it to score the wood prior to routing the ledges to reduce tear-out.

Aaron

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Aaron Craig

I also use the gramil. Routers are very loud and every second I'm using it I'm scared out of my mind. Instead, I can do binding channels in my room, quietly, and enjoy myself. It takes a while to do, but I find the activity very natural, and the results aren't that bad even the first time around. The tool itself is a good design as well.

Tip: If you find yourself doing tighter curves than the tool will allow, tape a pencil or STRAIGHT piece of scrap to the curved side and it will make it tighter. Also, the gramil is good for other marking purposes like finding centerlines and such.

I understand thanks.



enalnitramn,
Can you tell me more about the jig that you made or post a picture. I do own a full side variable speed router. Is a jig required for routing a top that is flat , or can I use the appropriate bit and bearing? I willing to use the router If I don't have to build or buy the Williams jig. thanks



Hi Mike,
It not too late for me to chicken out

Hi ron thanks for the links
heres a cool jig if youve a router already
Id still love to see some gramils though
Heres a kool one that gary hallam built