Official Luthiers Forum!

Remember-It's not the tool that matters,it's the NUT behind the handle!

Craftsmanship is about attitude . Good enough isn't good enough. Yes there are times when things have to be done a way that may be less than perfect and knowing how to make it look perfect. I can tell you that there is more than one way to do any one thing . Learn as much as you can from others , even if it is not to do it that way .
Hand skills are not always easy to learn. Good tool and technique . You will be amazed at how simply one can do something well and complicated one can do something wrong . Simplicity and economy of technique are important things to learn. Most things go wrong because things get over complicated or you do more than you have to.
Sharp isn't an option , it is a necessity .

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Sharp tools are very important to the end result of your work. They enable you to get very clean lines, and that comes in handy when you need to join two parts together, or you need to carve something. If you carve with a dull blade, the surface will be rough and you'll find yourself working the wood down too much, because after you sand that raggedy mess smooth, it will be a whole lot smaller than you want. When I'm carving braces, I keep a piece of 1500-2000 grit sandpaper and rub both sides of my tool with it to strop the blade a bit. There is a big difference after taking the 20 seconds to do that. As far as getting your stuff to look good, it really is just a matter of practice. The quality of your work will not be spot on and it will continue to not look spot on until you know how to use your tools well enough to achieve that. It may also have to do with the inferior tools you get before you know you want to do this a while. Care must be taken, every step premeditated. My biggest learning curve throughout all this learning how to actually be a luthier. To learn how to do everything very deliberately and carefully, as well as schedule procedures and take the time to think things through. I find myself, without thinking, just go on to the next step, when it would be best to look at what I have, what should be done with it, and my options on just how to do it. I'm trying my best to achieve that above all else. I'm done stressing because my work isn't as good as someone who's made 60 instruments, and that my level of detail and skill in inlay and carving leaves a lot to be desired. It gets better the more I practice, the more I work it into my instruments. Baby steps.....

One thing I learned is anything can be fixed. I tend to "trip out" at every little stupid mistake, but if I persevere things always work out and I've made some nice playable instruments. The mistakes have made me a better repair person too. Patience is key, and never give up, however bad you may think you are. For me the danger at this point seems to be when I get prematurely confident, or try too hard to fix mistakes. Hope that makes sense.

speaking of mistakes: I mixed a batch of shellac this morning and after pouring it into a new container, forgot to put the top on and worked on something else. Before I knew it my whole batch was soaked up in the bench top rug. DOAH! Trying to save some, I quickly pulled out a munica and soaked up the spilled shellac to get a quick first session of FP going. When I got to the back I carefully put some paper towels down to lay the top on it. BAD IDEA. When I picked up the guitar after doing the back, paper towels and thick sawdust filled shellac was glued on the front. What a mess. This too shall pass.

Sorry for the ramble. This is my therapy now.

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"Preoccupation with an effect gives it power and enhances the error"
from "Your Owner's Manual" by Burt Hotchkiss.

Dont admit Mistakes ?? If I didnt admit Mistakes I wouldnt have anything to post ! Look at this recent "DumbMove"




See the problem?

I was in such a hurry to glue it up and test my Jig that I Forgot to Cut the neck Mortise in the neck block BEFORE gluing ! You know how much of a pain its gonna be to router that now ?

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

Usally in my case its , " The Hole is because Im MISSING sum of its parts ! ""

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

The only mistakes are those that go out the door on an instrument that you have pronounced "finished." The rest is process.

I learned very early on in this that for someone working as a professional, difficulties in process are best revealed only to other professionals.

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Excellent words of wisdom. It used to be the hole is where I put my coffee cup. Now I just stuff paper into it while finishing.

_________________
"Preoccupation with an effect gives it power and enhances the error"
from "Your Owner's Manual" by Burt Hotchkiss.

I always route my neck mortises after the box is closed. It's not very hard to do at all, and is much more accurate than pre-mortising the neck block IMO.

Dave F.

_________________
Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"

UMMMMMM Enlighten me please ? You have a jig for that purpose ?

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

Why, yes. Yes I do. I know exactly how much of a pain it is.

_________________
Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/

I'm butting in here, but....









I used to do it before, but I do it this way now.. it is much easier to keep things straight this way imo.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

"Beware your 4th...."

An expression that probably grew out of Gurdjieffian Philosophy based on the Neogram and the western octave system of mystical esotieric philosophy doctrine as expounded by Peter D. Ouspensky a Russian esoteric philosopher known for his expositions of the works of the Greek-Armenian teacher of esoteric George Gurdjieff.

Simply put, do re me are whole tone intervals where as me to fa, the 4th note in the scale is a half tone or interval. This interval in the philosophy is referred to "the shock from without"

Each note on the scale is likened unto a level of consciousness.
Gurdjieff claimed that people cannot perceive reality in their current states because they do not possess consciousness but rather live in a state of a hypnotic "waking sleep" of the first three notes in the scale conditioned to the whole note intervals of do re me and that when they try to grow or evolve, have great difficulties in reaching the half note interval to fa, the 4th note in the scale. This step requires much work. Hence ..."Beware your 4th...."

So if you ace your forth build, well thats a pretty good indication that you will succeed in this lootherier game.

By the way the next half tone interval in the scale is between tee and do and is ofter refereed to as "the shock from within"

Ya, me know...mystical mumbo jumbo.

blessings
Padma

_________________
.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

makes sense.

_________________
member of the guild of professional dilettantes

Thanks for the refrence pics John !! I dont feel as much like a dummy now !

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

re: John Mayes post

there's a lot of wood to wood contact with that recessed bridge extension design. Looks pretty good. Does it make for a heavy neck joint area though?

_________________
"Preoccupation with an effect gives it power and enhances the error"
from "Your Owner's Manual" by Burt Hotchkiss.

I like full contact in that area. The paddle, the block, and the paddle is tight against the transverse brace which is tied into the rim.

Not that much difference in weight. If you consider a Martin style joint would have the Popsicle brace in that area, as well as account for the section I've routed out (the paddle weighs 40g before routing) there isn't much difference at all. As well as that area is pretty neutral in terms of balance.

_________________
John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

wanna hear somthing really dumb ??? huh huh huh do ya ??

I have a set of plans for the jigs to do this that i bought and forgot I own !!

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

Big Jim, I use a neck angle jig from Chris at Luthier Tool. It does all kinds of neck joints. It aint cheap, but it's very accurate indeed. There's quite a steep learning curve, but once you've mastered it, it's quick, easy, and produces spot-on joints. In principle it's similar to the Woolson (sp?) jig that there are plans out there for (is that what you have?), but it's all aluminum and super-adjustable - a joy to use.

If you cut the mortise before you glue the neck block in, you run the risk of the block moving or not being exactly place during glue up, resulting in an un-centered neck and/or one that's not exactly perpendicular to the body. By cutting the mortise after the box is closed, using a jig, you get a joint that's exactly correct and good to go with no tweaking.

HTH. Cheers,
Dave F.

_________________
Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"

That is certainly something to consider.

_________________
"Preoccupation with an effect gives it power and enhances the error"
from "Your Owner's Manual" by Burt Hotchkiss.