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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:24 pm 
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Koa
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I've had a customer recently express interest in having a guitar built from sustainable North American woods. I'm wondering what NA woods suitable for fretboards and bridges. I've stuck pretty close to ebony for most of my builds. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I'm sure this has been discussed before but I didn't come up with much when I searched through the archives.

Josh

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:08 pm 
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There's a lotta maple electric necks/fretboards out there that seem to be doing ok... guess it'd work for bridges as well(?)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:36 pm 
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Timely subject. I am about to try fumed black locust. Rob Dmitrieff brought me a small sample, fumed black or a dark grey through and through. I use black locust for bridgeplates sometimes, but never found it appealing enough to build a guitar with (it's kind of a boring piss-yellow colour). It is however an excellent tonewood and has very nice ring to it. It is also tough and abrasion resistant, which makes it appealing for fretboard material.
The subject of maple for fretboards comes regularly. My opinion is: uber-cool for a vintage Telly or Strat that's been played to death and has mojo. However the grey appearance of maple after contact with acidic sweat on a steel string is not appealing in the same way IMHO.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:37 pm 
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I think maple is the most common north american fingerboard wood. I have also considered using mosquite and dessert iron wood. Both are very hard and dark. I have heard some people suggest using osage orange, but I don't like the coloring so much...

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:18 pm 
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I was recently on a project where Mesquite was spec'd for flooring and trim. It seemed hard enough and dark enough for the subject here.
So far, though, you'd need to buy lumber and cut and waste, no one has offered it yet cut for f'boards.
The other dark and hard woods I see offered up, you can hardly get any anywhere.
Desert Ironwood? Texas Ebony? Good luck.
But there is hope... one of our loyal suppliers will come to the rescue just in time!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:20 pm 
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I think Osage Orange would be the hardest, most durable but it's color varies from bright yellow to a sort of brown orange. It would probably make a pretty funky looking guitar especially with a natural spruce top. A darker top it might not look too bad.

Desert Ironwood is very nice but I don't think it qualifies as sustainable.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:26 pm 
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Koa
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Thanks for the suggestions guys. There are a few things here that I can look into. Just to clarify, I'm trying to find something with a similar hardness to Ebony. For the most part I've avoided anything softer because I don't like how the playing wear shows up over time in softer FB materials.

Josh

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:46 pm 
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Koa
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Josh H wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions guys. There are a few things here that I can look into. Just to clarify, I'm trying to find something with a similar hardness to Ebony. For the most part I've avoided anything softer because I don't like how the playing wear shows up over time in softer FB materials.

Josh

Not too many woods harder than ebony, so good luck. I'm useing American Beech which has great wear qualities.That's why it's used in plane bodies. :)


Last edited by Mark Groza on Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:49 pm 
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Quote:
Desert Ironwood is very nice but I don't think it qualifies as sustainable.

Live trees are protected in the U.S., so most of the material I have seen was cut from dead trees. As a result, much of the stock has cracks, voids, worm holes, or rotten spots in it.
Both Texas ebony and desert ironwood are extremely hard and dark brown in color, but I favor Texas ebony because it seems to be a bit easier to source a clear, straight-grained piece.
The Texas ebony I have is from hurricane-damaged trees in and around Brownsville.

In the past, I have used dogwood, persimmon, black locust, and osage orange. All are harder than hard maple, but not as hard as good ebony. They are relatively light in color, but can be stained with aniline dyes.
Persimmon and dogwood work very well for fingerboards because of the small pores and the tendency to wear smooth with use.
I am interested in the fuming process for black locust, which is plentiful here. There is a process for blacking osage with steel wool in vinegar, but I haven't tried it.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:13 pm 
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Well, last I checked Mexico is still North America and they have some nice Ziricote and Cocobolo and I think Bocote. Those are the options I would think about! Another option might be Arbutus (Madrone) but it is again whiter in colour.

Shane

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:16 pm 
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+1 for PERSIMMON! ...........Hard as nails, and takes dye like a champ.

What the hell is Texas ebony?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:25 pm 
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make that +2 for persimmons. I also like apple and pear. Apple is a bit denser and harder on tools. I have found that Mockernut is a great tonewood. I lay it in the window where it gets a lot of sun for a day or two and then develops a wonderful creamy browns and tans.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:00 pm 
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Koa
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Shane Neifer wrote:
Well, last I checked Mexico is still North America and they have some nice Ziricote and Cocobolo and I think Bocote. Those are the options I would think about! Another option might be Arbutus (Madrone) but it is again whiter in colour.

Shane

I'm useing Ziricote on a build right now for fretboard and bridge and like the look of it, but i don't think it's very sustainable as it's quite rare as wood goes.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:08 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Make it +3 for persimmon. I used it on my third and stained it brown with black walnut hull tea. Worked quite well. I learned it from Alan Carruth. Alan has used some hophornbeam and stained it with the same tea and it turned out really well, too.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:12 pm 
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Koa
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How about Katolox/Wamara?...poor mans African Blackwood. Not exactly North America, but Central. Available from LMII. Used by Martin on their Sustainable Wood series. I've never used it for a FB or bridge, but I do have a couple BS sets. Seems like it would be a good choice.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:58 pm 
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Koa
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Thanks for all the tips guys. I'm making a list of all your suggestions so that I can look into them next time I can make a trip to the local wood dealers. It looks like at least one of them around here has Persimmon in stock and it is probably one of the first ones I will look into.

I have used Ziricote on a number of guitar and will probably use it again in the future. But for this project I think something more "sustainable" is probably what I am looking for.

Josh

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:15 pm 
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Hey Josh,

I would be somewhat careful on how one qualifies "sustainable". I will fully admit that I have not done ANY research in this but I understand that ziricote, for example, is not a "targeted" commercial wood species but is more of an incidental harvest for things like land clearing. I would suggest that pretty much all of the other species that have been mentioned are likely in the same boat. Non of them are abundant enough to support a full on commercial enterprise logging/harvesting operation and that in itself may define them as "unsustainable" by common definition. Just my couple of pennies worth!

Shane

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Last edited by Shane Neifer on Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:41 pm 
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Koa
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I appreciate the thoughts Shane. And I've been thinking some things along the same line. If I limit myself to woods that are sustainable by common definition (able to support the logging industry) then I will be fairly limited to what I can choose from. I guess I (or in this specific case the customer) will have to decide when it comes to this type of project if I will limit myself to truly sustainable woods or woods native to NA.

Josh

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