Official Luthiers Forum!

Not sure about X vs. J, but I have found that quality matters. And that Klingspor is good.

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

I use Klingspor Alumina-Zirconia from Klingspor woodworking shop. It's available in 18 or 50 meter rolls. They deliver to my shop. I'm not sure if their delivery area gets all the way up to your area, but they'll ship too. (actually the delivery truck mainly goes to automotive body shops)
http://www.woodworkingshop.com/cgi-bin/E1CDCD0A/mac/qryitems.mac/itemDisplay?qryType=STYLE&itemSt=PE41000&coreDsc=3%22X%2050%20METER%20ALUMINA%20ZIRCONIA%20BULK%20ROLLS

They've also got aluminum oxide, which is what I believe the Performax abrasives are.
http://www.woodworkingshop.com/cgi-bin/E1CDCD0A/mac/qryitems.mac/itemDisplay?qryType=STYLE&itemSt=PE003X50&coreDsc=3%22X%2050%20METER%20ALUMINUM%20OXIDE%20BULK%20ROLLS

My sander is a 10-20, but I believe the abrasives are the same. (except for length).

_________________
I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

I'm pretty new to drum sanders, but this is what I bought:

http://www.woodmastertools.com/NS/acces ... cfm?PID=78

I can say that the X weight are stiffer than J weight, and for this I would think X weight would be better.

_________________
Regards,
Phillip Patton

http://www.pattonblades.com

The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price has faded.

https://hoosierbladesmith.wordpress.com

Filippo,
I have started shopping with 2sand.com. I have talked with the owner, RJ. He is pretty cool. He sells about everything. You can get rolls of paper for your Performax. You have to cut the ends which is no big deal. I make a wooden template and hit with a utility knife and or use a old roll to get the length right.
I also was able to get some 24" dia. disks for the radius dish. About $9 a piece. I got 80 grit and some 180 for the final hit prior to glue up. These aren't PSA but some 77 spray adhesive takes care of that. Check him out.
Link

_________________
Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

The last rolls I got are from Econ, and I will say I prefer them to the Klingspor ones. They seem to last longer, clog less and leave a better surface.
Weight matters, you want thinner backing for higher grits, like 120, where you can really dial 1/2 thou at a time.
The blue zirconia is great in the coarse grits to remove material in a hurry, like 24. However, I think it doesn't leave as nice a surface with finer grits.

_________________
Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

When I had my 22-44 I bought rolls here. Good stuff
http://www.industrialabrasives.com/sanding-rolls-aluminum-oxide-polycotton-drum-sanding-rolls-3x52-yds-c-79_154.html.

and here
http://www.onlineindustrialsupply.com/?google-sandpaper&gclid=CJvxpdqBk6gCFYbb4AoddWkeCw

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

Not to hijack your thread, but the last 3 rolls of Performax paper I bought all tore within 5 minutes of use. I'm using a 16-32 and have used extreme caution doing the wraps, even so much as re-wrapping 5-6 times before being satisfied. Is this a paper issue, user error or the sander? Thoughts?

_________________
Bobby Masten

My last rolls were from Econ abrasives and I have to say that I am very pleased at the quality. Prices are hard to beat also.

Chuck

_________________
_________________

+2 for Online Industrial. Klingspor 3" x 50 yard cloth roll of 80 grit aluminum oxide will set you back about $65. And they're fast too.

http://www.onlineindustrialsupply.com/3indrsaro.html

_________________
Jim Womack

"Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for. "
Will Rogers

Filippo, I've been pretty happy with this stuff http://woodworker.com/a-habrasives-3x91-zirc-36y-rdwrp-16-mssu-132-518.asp?search=sand&searchmode=2 It cuts really well, doesn't load up much, even on Cocobolo and It seem to have a very good life. I haven't tried the Klingspore stuff though.

_________________
Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Thanks, I was trying to figure out why it wasn't hot.

_________________
Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Another vote for Online Industrial Supply, Bobc's second link. I've been happy with their paper's performance and longevity. I haven't gone through a complete roll of anything yet.

Jim

_________________
Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

There are several types of abrasives out there for the cost effectivness and longevity .
X wt Cloth is going to be stiffer and will sand better at your rougher grits , 40 / 60 / 80 /100 / 120 and will last longer . Simply put you can get everything up through 320 in an xwt material .
Jwt is a little easier to work with , however due to the flexability and thinnes it will get hot and stretch faster . ALL Cloth backed stuff will stretch some and may require re- tightening if your doing alot of sanding .
VSM abrasives is a good product , Klingspor is a good product , Econ may be , Im not to familiar with them . Carborundum is another one . The best cost savings is to make a pattern and cut your own strips , Purchase the 3" x 50Yd rolls and cut them yourself .
In regards to softer wood that will load up the material I would go with a cheaper brand / material since you will never get the full life as it loads up anyway . There are soaps available to clean them , however it is a mess and if the cloth back gets soaked it doesnt last long
PERSONALLY I use xwt cloth 3"x 50yd and cut them myself on both 80/120 grits and hand sand there after . Someone mentioned $65.00 a roll 3"x 50Yd that is good price if its a decent quality. I will be glad to quote anyone what dealer cost is if they would like to know an average to compair against what they pay .

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

Additional thoughts .

There is material that is "Canada Sand" if I remember correctly that is a good product .

The main thing to realize is there are basically 4-6 MAJOR Bulk Sandpaper makers worldwide and they sell 52" wide rolls x 50yd long to various " Converters" who the cut it and make there own products . Sooooo you can have several diffrent brands that are basically the same stuff . The trick is to read the Back , there is a a brand mark on most stuff IE: KP911-120 is Vsm material really good stuff , Big $$ . Learning how to read and understand that will help .

I will see if I can come up with a " chart " that I could post that may be helpfull

On disc , your choices are " Cwt " and " Awt" Go Cwt , u will be happier .

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

Second Note ! The link listed to Woodworkers supply opens up to " Zirconia Abrasive" materials . This is good stuff , dont get me wrong . However its really a metal finishing paper! It is way overkill for wood . I am not saying you dont need it I am saying You will pay more and may not need to. Its also a Ywt Poly Backed Material so its thicker and stiffer . I do sell alot of that Material in " Wide Belts " but never in 3" wide for sanders .

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

The woodworker supply stuff maybe overkill, but it does last a long time helping to offset the cost.
Also, I may be crazy, but I'll give it a light spray with Pam cooking spray prior to sanding resinous woods. It's like adding extra horse power to the drum sander.

_________________
Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Your creating a Lubricant that helps the buildup problem , as long as it doesnt affect the wood your ok . You can actually buy sandpaper that has a bulit in lubricant for working stainless steels .

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

What is the spec information on the backing , I might be able to determine who's paper it is .




Performax is all about " Convenience " they dont make their own stuff , its private labled by a converter for them .

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

Just a little comment about Econabrasives -

I placed an order on June 15 and they didn't ship until June 24th -that's 7 business days. They emailed me an order confirmation on the day I ordered but nothing after that until I called them to ask where my order was.

Not exactly stellar customer service IMO - but then again, I was shopping based on price.

Kevin Looker

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

I quickly scanned this, but did not read it throughout. So I may be repeating something that was already said.

I did not see it mentioned that you can avoid buying Klingspor at retail prices by establishing an account. (If it was, sorry for the repeat.) I recently submitted an application and established an account with Klingspor and bought their 25m rolls (oblivious longer than 25 yds) of 3" 80 grit PS29 and 120 grit PS20 paper at 65% of retail ($29.61/roll and $26.98 respectively final cost).

Avoiding the pre-marked paper saved about 30% according to Klingspor. I can easily cut the paper without paying +30% for cut lines. I glanced at the Econ pricing which appears to be higher than Klingspor unless they are offering discounts. I can't speak to the quality difference between the two since I've never owned Econ. I was told that Klingspor is the maker of the paper for Performax.

I am not making any recommendations, just passing on my experience in case it is of help.

Ed