Official Luthiers Forum!

I bought two pre-slotted unradiused fret boards from Randy Allen at Allen Guitar & Luthier Supplies. I wanted to say that the quality is excellent, because i bought stock scale lengths, the price was more than reasonable.

I also ordered a radius sanding block that was unfortunately left out of the shipment. I called Randy to explain and he apologized and sent it out right after we talked.

Just my little testament to high quality merchants making the internet buying process easy and safe.

Thanks Randy!

B

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brendan 3.0 new and improved, with better interpersonal subroutines

"I actually gotta say, the one time I ordered from them I was pretty disappointed."

So, did you contact Randy and give him the chance to fix it? My experience is that he's serious about his business and would do the right thing. If he doesn't know about it, you can't really fault him.

I bought 12 ebony bridge blanks from Randy and the quality was much better than expected. I also got a rosewood B&S set from him that revealed a stain in the wood after thicknessing. He sent me a new one before i even sent the other one back. And he even rough thicknessed it for me too!

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Pat

I have been getting slotted boards and some occasional shell from Randy for probably around 15 years. I also send some Aussie native wood to be slotted a few years ago. Very happy with the service and quality of the product. Sure there have been a few (rarely) problems, but Randy has always sorted them out. Unfortunately the Lacey Act has caused Randy to stop all exports of wood and shell because he is not prepared to put his business at risk. As a happy customer of 15 years running I'm disappointed to say the least, but I can certainly understand why he has had to do this.

I ordered some bear claw tops and I wanted them to be wide for a jumbo. They went out and measured the tops for me to make sure the tops would work which I thought was really nice of him to do. By the way the bear claw was really nice bear claw I thought. In fact I still have some which I want to put on another guitar.
Chuck

I've seen that in a lot of boards, and from very reputable suppliers. I'm not sure what causes it, but it's not cracks, it's something natural in the wood. I originally though it was surface contamination, but it goes through and through in the effected boards. All the boards were structurally fine, they just had freckles.

I wonder if Larry Davis or one of the other wood enlightened know what causes it?

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

Bob I've seen a lot of this too. I wish I knew what causes it but I don't.

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The white spots are mineralization, a common occurrence in tropical hardwoods. Basically it is calcium carbonate, AKA lime deposits. As you found out, on ebony they look like dark or greasy spots once the wood is sanded smooth. It never has bothered me that much on ebony fingerboards, but you can remove them with a dilute solution of muriatic acid.

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John

I placed my very first order for supplies with Randy 11 years ago. Kind of nostalgic.

It seems like it would be hard to see run out in ebony.

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"Preoccupation with an effect gives it power and enhances the error"
from "Your Owner's Manual" by Burt Hotchkiss.

Swimming pool acid is Muratic acid (HCl)

HCl is probably not the best acid to remove Calcium Carbonate, easier and safer to use a combination of Phosphoric and Acetic acids ( active ingredients in Lime-away or CLR) or even try warm white vinegar.

try on scrap first becuase acids can cause some strange stains when combined with Iron or Tannins. - or the staining could help darken your grey ebony. Tea (tannin) steel wool (Iron) and vinegar is a common recipie for 'ebonizing' maple.

-jd

Power sanding, like from a drum type thickness sander, seems to accentuate the mineralization. Instead of just being in the pores, the sanding will smear it over the surface, which really looks bad. The worst example of it that I have seen was in some IRW sides from Martin. They were considered rejects, and priced accordingly ($5 a set, if I recall correctly).
Fortunately, the process of bending sides will eliminate most, if not all of it.
The other woods I have seen it in are wenge, padauk, Brazilian rosewood, Amazon rosewood (common), and mahogany (rarely).
C-L-R works pretty good, and sometimes the pore filling process with hide it. If the back only has a few affected pores, I have picked it out with a sharp X-Acto knife just before starting the finish work.

Maybe, but planing a fingerboard with a hand plane will reveal it instantly. A lot of ebony has ribbon stripe or curl, both of which can complicate machine or hand planing.

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John

Sorry, not quite, although a common myth.

Tannic acid, iron and vinegar is the recipe for turning wood black.

Tannin as found in tea ain't tannic acid and won't work.

If you do try and make your own back die, don't use steel wool. It makes one heck of a mess that has to be fillterd out. Use rusty old nails, or any chunks of rusty iron found in scrap yards or along the waterfronts of cities.


Blessings
Padma

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I ordered a set of EIR from Randy a couple of months ago, and I was very impressed with the quality. I payed for a 90 dollar set and got $150 dollar wood. It was well quartered, rich, and dark. For the money, I expected to get that green tinted junk that you get from most big suppliers, but it was really top grade wood. I would definately recommend him. You should have tried to contact him before you got on here to trash talk his business.

I use steel wool and burn it in a tray using a propane torch and then soan in vinegar for a day or so before filtering with a coffee filter. it is kind of messy getting the burned wool in a jar, but other than that it was not really a problem. Nails will work fine as will old rebar but you may have to keep the venegar warm or let it soak for a couple of weeks.

You don't really need additional tannic acid in most woods as they will have enough natural tannins. while many teas are weak in tannic acid, good old fasioned black tea has enough tannin in it to help the reaction. Just don't use your fancy herbal tea as most of these have little or no tannic acid.

-jd

Same thing. I was referring to rosewood, where the mineralization is typically only visible in the pores.
In my experience, the spots in ebony become much less obvious once the wood is polished.

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John

If a finish is going over it, as in a dark rosewood guitar back, there's no need for alchemy. I get out a black or brown Sharpie. Works a champ.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Very timely for me. I have a fingerboard that I have spent alot of time on, with some fairly intricate inlays and yes it has these spots. I hadn't seen them before so I thought they would come out when I sanded and oiled the board. They don't. Windsurfer (in a post above) recommended warm white vinegar. So I tried it and along with a fret board oil (Stew-Mac) it worked. So thanks, you saved me alot of work and $ - Mike

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