Official Luthiers Forum!

If your in AU and read this thread and are in the market for something special, these Harold & Saxon chisels get a very good wrap..they also do a long paring chisel not listed.

http://www.haroldandsaxon.com/product_range.htm

Cheers

Kim

I wouldn't get a 'set' of chisels - buy the widths you need. Some of the skinny LMI chisels are handy for bridge work, and a 1/2" or 5/8 will do for all your purfling/binding trimming and paring jobs.

For most instrument work you need paring chisels, not something designed to be hammered all day. If it has metal hoops around the handle, it's not a paring chisel!

I like to use a shallow sweep gouge for shaping braces. (Out-cannel carver's gouge..Henry Taylor or similar)

John

This Narex set is hard to beat at $49 from Highland:
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/narex-chisels.aspx

They have a 4 piece Hirsch set for $100:
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/hirschbeveledgechiselsetoffour.aspx and singles starting at 2mm

"For most instrument work you need paring chisels, not something designed to be hammered all day. If it has metal hoops around the handle, it's not a paring chisel!"

True, but most of the suggestions including the LMII chisels are Bench chisels. The LMII for instance aren't hooped, but they make a point of how they are tougher than Japanese chisels (good luck), but why again? If they aren't being hammered on and are being used for braces and necks, why so tough.

The fact is hoops or other bench chisel features would not detract from the pairing use in any way relative to the format of the LMII chisels. And if you like the op lies the LN chisels you can rig them for bench or push chisels use by swapping the handles. I don't see where a weaker chisel that is more cheaply made is a great step forward at the same price point. But sure, it will cut braces, so long as you never have another use, like mortising the joints in your bench etc...

By the way, a good way to seat socket chisels hammer heads, etc... Is to grab the handle with the metal bit dangling in the air below, then start hitting the grip. This will cause the hammer head, or chisel to walk up the handle, and wedge hard. It is more elegant than bashing the chisel into things. And works better than anything else I have seen. It just looks like it would send the metal bit flying, but it doesn't.

I do lots of my work with Japanese chisels that have hoops and I don't find them inconvenient in any way.

On topic, one more option is Pfeil, I heard a few people saying they are good bang.

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Build log

Well, I hate to go "pinkies up" on you all, but 15 years ago when I had a day job, I bought a set (1/4 to 1-1/2") of Robert Sorby English style cabinetmaker's chisels with boxwood handles, and I think I'll keep 'em...

There are lots of good chisels out there. You'll probably spend more time paring with them as opposed to using a mallet so choose a shape & size that's comfortable for you.

I like these & they're not crazy expensive
http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/a ... _bench.htm

They also sell Blue Spruce, Sorby, Henry Taylor & others.

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

I used to do a lot of carving and the chisels I like the best are Pfeil. I have a bunch of them and they work very well.

There are a lot of chisels that work well, especially some of the older ones. Same as planes, you don't have to go to some botique store and pay big $$$. Its certainly ok if you want to, I have a few of those tools too but they're an indulgence not a neccessity.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I have a nice selection of modern Blue Spruce, Taylor, Sorby, LMI, Pfeil, 2 Cherries etc chisels, but I usually prefer my old European ones. Berg, Eskilstuna, Jernbolaget, Kongsberg and Marples are all great brands from long ago, and unless you are in Scandinavia, where they are common in flea markets etc., eBay is probably your best bet for finding them. IMO Blue Spruce chisels have an uncomfortable blade geometry, and those LMI handles are really awkward. The carbon steel in those old chisels seems usually (but not always) to be very good at taking, and reasonably well at holding, an edge. They are usually easier, at least quicker, to sharpen than modern cryogenically treated steels, which means I'm more likely to keep it really sharp. YMMV, of course

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Well for those of you who got the bucks to spend on LMII, Two Cherries and Blue Spruce go ahead. But the same quality is available else were and at better prices. Look around. Go to the junk and pawn shops and garage sales. You will be amazed.

Me, me prefer old as in Swedish Eskilstuna steel...various manufactures with E.A. Berg Eskilstuna Shark Brand Chisels being one of the more famous. Getting harder to find in NA...Europe still has them. Me like sockets, the handles don't break like a tang handles that are a hassle to replace.

Me also like the chisels from Henry Taylor Tools Ltd. of Sheffield England.

Do the Ebay thing...especially the European ebay.

Eskilstuna chisles.




blessings

_________________
.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

Here are my four LMII style glue chisels. These get used a lot, and it is nice to have chisels that are designed from the ground up for guitar building.

I find I do almost *ALL* of my guitar work with either my 3/4" or my 1/4" Blue Spruce Paring chisels....
Next up is an itty-bitty 1/8" wide twin cherries.
The only other thing I use a chisel for is scraping glue... I have a cheap, short Stanley from HD for that duty....

The key there is the extra length the paring chisels give you....

From my own perspective - buying a set just isn't worth it. Buy 2 really good chisels and be done with it.

Then.. on buying old rust - my luck has been total hit or miss.... You can easily spend a giant amount of time rehabbing old rust, making new handles, etc.... - only to find out that some idiot used it for a fireplace poker and ruined the heat treat.... Or... You might get lucky. In my experience - the steel wasn't any better back then than it is today.... YMMV.

Twin Cherries or Pfeil or Narex or Sorby or Ashley Isles or Blue Spruce or whatever - buy a good quality woodworker's chisel with a comfortable handle and a long blade in the $30-50.00 range and walk away happy.

Thanks

I have a lot of chisels as well but find I only use a few for guitar making. For paring, it's 1/2" and 1/4" Stanley 720, Sorby, Marples with the boxwood or ash handles (really like these) and for all other uses, Marples blue chip, Stanley 750, Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley Bevel edge. I tend to rotate them by sharpness and then set out a few hours for sharpening every few months. I tend to lean toward the old Marples paring ones though. Something about the boxwood handles I think. Oh, and I really like the Veritas detail chisels for small fiddly stuff. Threads like this could go on forever

It can be a lot of work tuning up a chisel, but it can pay dividend as well because a certain sense of 'ownership' comes from the effort that the wallet just cannot deliver.

I picked up what I believe the handle indicates is a fairly early Marples 3/4" paring chisel cheap on ebay with the idea of adding a dedicated brace shaping chisel to the kit. It is my understanding that this tools dates from between the wars. The steel is 'very' good, but more to the point, the 'shape' is excellent because process back then was more 'hands-on' and the dedicated focus of the manufacturer was comfort and functionality for the end user rather than what could be done under the constrains of more modernized mechanical means introduced around the 1950's. Anyhow when listed the tool looked like this.



But with a bit of grinding to establish the Billy Bob Cumpiano Belly Bevel...(2BC2B for those in the know ) and a 'lot' of lapping, it now looks like this:







For those more interested in the 2BC2B you can see it clearly in the above image but I have marked the image below for clarification. It allows the chisel more scope for control in long 'shallow' cuts.



This drawing shows how the top of the bevel is ground off to blend back into the back of the blade forming the 'belly'. It is the curvature of this belly which allows the user much greater and smoother adjustment in the depth of cut.



As cool and fruidy as all this is, it must also be said that satisfactory results can easily be achieved from any good sharp butt chisel because at the end of the day it is mainly only spruce that we are working so there really is no need to get too carried away....but I must also say that it is nice to lay my hand on Mrs Marples when I want to achieve the zen mind set which I find helps me enjoy my work that much more and with 'that' comes an improved outcome....Excalibur if you will

Cheers

Kim

Ashley Iles here. I have liked them and they are more in the $25 per chisel range.

http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/a ... _bench.htm


Peter

Nice chisel, but how does rounding the top of the bevel work in a cut?

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

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Bevel down it will allow you to make a nice smooth scallop. It is the same principle at work in the left chisel in my group which has enough curve on the non-bevel side to allow it to flow nicely in the cute, and yet allowing the bevel to be simple and easily sharpened.

Hey Kim, nice one! I bought a 3/4" Marples on eBay too, and although I didn't make it as pretty as yours, it has quickly become my favourite brace carving tool. I don't know how old mine is, it has a different style of handle than yours ("London style"?). Sorry about the crappy mobile pic...

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

The benefit is mainly realized in bevel down work Howard. As Todd suggests, this form of shaping the bevel had been common practice applied to 'paring' chisels in many woodworking shops for a very long time. My reference to William Cumpiano was made only because it is in his book that most people first hear of the practice. What I find strange is that despite that text being heralded by so many as the bible of guitar building, why it that so few in this craft have adopted the practice. I think those adventurous enough to take and old chisel and try it out instantly realise why the belly grind is done, while those who are not, never will. There loss, but as I say the job can be done OK with a sharp butt chisel so to each his own




Yes Arnt they are a very good tool for the job and can be had quite cheap. I'll now leave the shorter Bergs in the rack but they are hard to beat for most anything else.

Cheers

Kim

OK, I thought you might be talking bevel down. However, a flat bevel acts as a jig for aligning the cutting edge as soon as you are the least bit into the cut. Shortening the flat part of the bevel loses some of that alignment. If you are scooping, the rounding helps. But paring is a straight cut where it would not help. In fact, for scooping with the bevel down I can see no reason for using a long paring chisel. They are made for paring cuts with the bevel up.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

I imagine students of wood working probably would find a shorter double bevel carving chisel more to their liking and that's great for them because the truth is that just about 'anything' sharp will do the job just fine so the choice truly does come down to what works for you.

For me, I am 'much' more comfortable with a good long paring chisel. I find the extra length offers far better control for me when I am working free hand and I also enjoy the added flexibility offered by simply belly grinding the bevel. I do have many good chisels to choose from, Berg, Woodcock, Jernbolaget, Ward etc and even some fantastic early Titans, but like Arnt, when it comes to brace carving, I now have a firm favorite. I also believe that the confidence I feel when I first put that chisel in my hand and present its edge to the wood does much for the focus of my concentration and 'that' alone is worth all the effort..its and ownership thing. So the truth is that I don't really care what the rest of you are using because I have a very good relationship going with Mrs Marples...and after all, love 'is' blind.

Cheers

Kim

I'm an amateur. I build electrics. Hardwoods. I do as much of my work with hand tools as I possibly can. They are economical, quiet, I like the hand work, and for me they force me to slow down and really focus more on what i'm doing. But having said that, I'm on a fixed budget, and can't afford $50 a chisel. I use these
http://www.lowes.com/pd_113187-355-16-975_0__?productId=1004755&Ntt=stanley+chisel&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dstanley%2Bchisel

A standard set of low cost Stanley chisels. I have three of them. 1/4", 1/2" and 3/4". Most builders on this forum and elsewhere would call them absolute junk. They work great. I won't be the envy of other instrument builders for using them, and there are definately much better chisels out there. If you can afford them, more power to you. I find that if I keep the Stanleys sharp, they do the job just fine. Do I need to sharpen them more often than a more expensive chisel? Maybe. But it really only takes a few seconds to sharpen a well maintained chisel. I treat them like I do my kitchen knives. Hone them just a little before every use and they stay good and sharp. In fact, I used them to carve a maple top not too long ago( don't have the cash for Ibex planes, either, but the chisels worked just fine). Had to stop and hone them a couple of times before I was done. But, again, just a few strokes on 800, 1000, and 1500 grit sandpaper( I use the Scarey Sharp method), literally seconds, and they were good to go.
I also use a cheap chinese Stanley plane. I've found that if you keep it sharp, it, too, works just fine.
I've looked at all the higher end chisels online. They look really nice. Again, if you can afford them, I wouldn't fault you in the least. One should buy the best tool he/she can afford. But I just can't justify the extra cash for "better" chisels when the plain old Stanleys that I have are working just fine. I'll take that money and spend it elsewhere. But I must admit to enjoying this thread and others like it. Carry on.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.