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another good use for the table saw is cutting the truss rod channel with a dado blade.

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"...you have to get over your strict adherence to your largely imagined notion of absolute perfection..."

I trimmed my last fretboard that way and didn't have any issues. Quite a satisfying experience, if I must say.

I had that little Yellow DeWalt 745 portable saw mentioned earlier for 4 or 5 years before I upgraded to a Unisaw. It did the job. One problem with the Sawstop is that it won't run with a 6" fret slotting blade. They don't make a cartridge for that size unless something new has come out the last year. That said, the Sawstop contractor is certainly attractive. During 30+ years of Orthopaedics I took care of tons of power tool injuries and probably 90% were from a table saw.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Well that's encouraging!!! (NOT)

My one and only injury to date was a router bit that broke and decided to embed in my thumb joint - but that was about 30 years ago. So far only minor blood.

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P A U L B U R N E R
Burner Guitars

I recently replaced my Jet contractor's saw with a Grizzly G0690. Good saw, much better value.

The table saw is not strictly as necessary in a lutherie shop as the bandsaw, but it does a bunch of things more accurately. I began to use mine a lot more after putting a 7-1/4" Diablo blade in it, and getting a good miter fence and well set-up rip fence.

If you aren't experienced with one, get a good book and read all the safety rules. Then obey them.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Paul: The most used power tool in my shop is the table saw. I have a 10" sears craftsman,don't know the model but near the top of the line and relatively new,about 8 years old. The Diablo blades are a must and will handle 95% of the work. They cut like a dream. I got mine thanks to recommend of Mario P.
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

That percentage could also have something to do with how common these tools are, and how much use they see in woodworking in general. But it demands respect, for sure.

I have an older Wadkin cabinet saw, similar to a Unisaw etc., equipped with a Biermeyer fence. I made a router table extension for it, which uses the same fence. I use it all the time, especially for jigs and fixtures, but also for making parts, such as bindings, linings, end blocks, truss rod slots, bridges, neck tenons, fingerboards, you name it. Its either faster, more accurate or both, than most other tools for most of these tasks. I could have gotten by without it, but why would I?

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

I think you're absolutely right Arnt. Next most common was a jointer. I really don't remember any serious stuff from a router or band saw but there were probably a few. If you were Amish getting caught in a V-belt was the big one.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

A warning to anyone wanting to buy a Ridgid (I think TS220)--the fold up contractors' saw--which is really nice but expensive if your motor goes out. You cannot buy a new armature to rebuild it, and can only get a new motor, for $300.00, which isn't much less than a whole new saw... I have one I bought cheap from a guy who said it only needed new brushes. WRONG. The brushes were fine and I still can't afford the motor so it's sitting in pieces in my shop. I like the fence it has though. I hear belt drive saws are much safer too.

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"Preoccupation with an effect gives it power and enhances the error"
from "Your Owner's Manual" by Burt Hotchkiss.

No problems Filippo - I have found this very enlightening.

I was thinking of using a table saw for straighter (and more finished) cuts for things like fingerboard tapering, making braces by the hundreds, building more work tables, jigs, etc.

In building, I'm not all that excited about spending more time than really needed for any specific part of the build. I'm trying to identify places where my systems are flawed - and correct those flaws so I can be more efficient with my time.

I've found that tapering fingerboards has been a time killer for me - and from this thread and some PM's I've gotten - AND another thread I started based on responses here - I have a better understanding of how to use my existing tools (band saw and router table) to get a decent result.

I still wish I had a table saw to make some of the jigs that I've wanted - that I just didn't feel like my band saw was the proper tool for the job.

I really enjoy the links and the tangents this thread has taken - so I'm pleased.

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P A U L B U R N E R
Burner Guitars

I did without a TS in a shop with about 30 stationary tools for about 10 years. Then I would go to my the cottage where the only power tool was a TS. I found it so useful I tried bringing it back. I got a beautiful Beaver 9" (Canadian Delta) cast iron saw, for 40 bucks. This is not a big time score, they are out there for up to about 80 every day of the week on craigs, etc... I thought it might be my only saw, but I found a nice Inca for about 350. I always wanted an inca, so it has moved to the front of the line. It is a little weird, needing a 20 mm hole in the blades, glad I have a milling machine... I would really recommend these old Delta saws, they are heavy, which is an advantage, and way better made than current offers. I also like the slightly smaller saw, more survivable, and not such space hogs.

Safety wise table saws are not that dangerous if you observe some common sense rules. Never get your fingers near the blade, use push sticks, jigs, or cut from both ends, rather than pushing through. Use a proper fence, a splitter. Don't push the workpiece size thing, the most serious trauma I had was a kickback incident with a 3hp saw, where my workpiece was just a little short, a little thick, and a little wide. While a table saw is powerful and versatile, I keep it safe by using it in a limited way, looking at it as an accuracy tool.

With power tools I recommend getting a good English book, the EU has much stricter rules and you will learn things that never come up over here. Also, many of their tools have actually been updated, rather than just the accessorizing of 1920s designs.

Filippo - the OP said, "I don't want to break the bank"

Oh yeah - that was me -

No fancy TS for me right now.

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P A U L B U R N E R
Burner Guitars

$100 gets you one -

http://lincoln.craigslist.org/tls/2116823784.html

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Frankly, the only thing I use a table saw for is slotting necks for T/R's. I also cut squares of apple ply for moulds.
I have a 15 year old Rexon (the company that makes Powermatic and Delta).

Paul

I find a table saw to be one of my most used tools in my shop. I have an old Canadian made all solid metal one that I got used on Kijiji very cheap. I use it for wripping braces, fingerboards and for neck blocks.

But the thing I use it for most is that it is my main work surface. I do all my building on it. It's the central piece in my shop.

One thing though - heed what Howard said. These things can be very dangerous. I always approach with respect.

Neil

My TS is in my garage but my shop is upstairs in my house so I've learned to do most everything without it and I don't miss it. The only thing I use my table saw for is fret slotting and it really does a lousy job of that. Setting the height of the blade on most TS's is probably the least accurate thing they do. At least on mine, the crank doesn't have a locking mechanism so I can't really trust it to stay where I put after I start the saw. Just my 2 cents.

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Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

+1, 100 bucks or best offer, 60-80 gets it. If I had the space I would be a buyer on the spindle sander, or anything by Wilton, great for all kinds of jig making. Space is the big bugaboo. I have lots, but it can't really be expanded at this point, that means I always have too little. I just can't get the idea that more tools are cool, but space is the ultimate tool.

Since I was into building furniture first, I already had a good table saw. Now that I am only building guitars, I would never part with it. It is a great tool to have, and you can use the fence as a back stop to glue up tops and backs if you know how. The top is perfectly flat, so it helps. The fence is very important. You need a good fence. Look for a used one. I bought a slightly used Powermatic model 66. I integrated the saw into my workbench, so I can lower the blade, remove the fence and you don't know it is there. Be aware that the big ones require 220 volts to run. It all depends on how much you want to spend and how much room you have, but the many uses of the table saw usually outweigh the down side. There are plenty of used saws out there, you just have to find them.
Good luck.
Mike R

I see that a lot of luthiers avoid table saws. My experience is different than most that have been stated. I started woodworking before getting the guitar bug. Furniture, art, and cabinets, mostly, and it has not been my livelyhood.

I agree that guitarmaking is working from a center line without parallel surfaces, while the strength of a table saw is parallel and square cuts. But with some simple jigs taper cuts and jointery cuts are easily done and I would argue done more safely than with routers and templates. Of course get training on the table saw. Like someone said, not all the risks are obvious.

I have a unisaw. I had an old Craftsman with a bad fence and bad bearings. A 1/8" kerf blade would leave a 1/4" cut. Accuracy of the fence was terrible. Remember most of these saws were used (abused) by, you guesssed it, contractors, not lovingly cared for by luthiers.

Another thing I will say is that it is fun to get a bargain and have it work out great. That happens very rarely to me. My experience is that I have rarely regretted purchasing a quality tool. 9 out of 10 bargains broke with limited use or didn't function adequately.

I offer this divergent view only to make your decision more difficult. I love my table saw!

Danny R. Little

I would love to have the space and funds for a nice table saw. Growing up I had access to my Dad’s where it typically commanded the center stage of the work, but I’ve somehow managed to do without ever since. On the upside, I think my hand tool skills have vastly improved as a result.

Joe

Table saw eh...
Well me like old. Right now me pushing a late 40's 10 in. Atlas from Kalamazoo Michigan, and an 8 inch Beaver made in Guelph Ont. in the 50's. Both are cabinet makers saws. Oh and real little sweet 50's Porter Cable bench top model me keep in me upstairs assembly shop.

If I was in the market for a table saw it would be a General, from Drummondville Quebec... Heck if me ever stumbled on an old General, me would buy it on the spot.

In me nsho there are saws, and then there are table saws, and then there are table saws and well the Generals and Atlas's are in that 4th group. Almost impossible to find. Those that have found them have payed an arm and a leg or lucked out for $50. Go figure eh.


blessings

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Inca (not Incra) #250 and #259 saws are no longer made but they are small, built like a Swiss watch (made in Switzerland ... ) and available on the used market (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/incawoodworking/, Craigslist (http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/tls/2111804254.html and Ebay). Plenty of power, up to a 1 meter rail and the #259 model has a Mortise table attachment in case you can't feed youself on making guitars alone. Jesse at Eagle Tools in LA has them and plenty of parts too if you don't trust classifieds.

I only use my table saw for precision ripping, ripping thick stock and dado work. A guided circular saw (Festool TS-55) with varous blades does everything else I don't do on my bandsaw.

Todd,
I was responding to the original request for small footprint, a straight cut and later in the thread a concern about safety. Inca 250 series are light weight but contain no plastic, have a small footprint and come standard with a real riving knife which you will not find on a similar sized saw. In fact you probably won't find a riving knife on most tablesaws in the US period. Inca was ahead of its time as far as safety for a hobby saw. Max depth of cut is 3 1/8" at 90 degrees with a 10" blade. I don't know why you would need to go any deeper than that with a tablesaw. That's bandsaw territory in my shop. Most cabinet or hybrid saws can't go much deeper than that. The G1023 can't. I make rare tilt cuts so tilting the table is a not a big issue. Taking a few blades to a saw sharpening service shop and having 20mm arbors drilled is not a huge deal to me. I only have a few blades and my blades last a long time. It's all a trade off. Space, quality and safety were the variables in my suggestion. No one had mentioned Inca and they are great for anyone with those requirements. If you have space for a cabinet or hybrid saw and don't get a SawStop, get one with a real riving knife.

Re safety, one thing I've noticed over the years is that most every time I hurt myself (or have a close call) I noticed a moment before that I didn't have a clear handle on the geometry and forces of what I was doing. The injury follows when I try to go ahead anyway. The thing to do is stop any time you don't feel completely on top of what you are doing.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Howard - that was my reason for selling my motorcycle some years ago.

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P A U L B U R N E R
Burner Guitars