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I'm finding that there are more and more things I wish I had a table saw for in my shop.

I'm sure there are things I could do with a router and my band saw, but seems like a table saw would be nice.

I don't want to break the bank - and like a lot of us here, I'm really cramped for space.

Am I right to assume that the fence, and it's ability to be set easily for a nice straight cut is essential and a key deciding factor?

It would be nice to be able to either:

a) have a small saw that would be able to store on the shelf under my rolling work bench, and then sit on top of it when I want to use it. or...

b) have a table saw that I could build some type of a tabletop over it's deck so I can use as a work area.

So - help me start my search please.

Thanks!

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P A U L B U R N E R
Burner Guitars

Paul:

If it were me, I'd go with an old Craftsman tablesaw...like from the 50's. They're not lightweight by any means, probably about 180 lbs with a motor. They were very solidly built. A Biesemeyer type fence, that locks on the front rail only will retrofit on most saws. Despite being classified as a "benchtop" saw, they're not made to be lifted up and down. Probably find one in the $50-$100 range. I had one for years and it was a great little saw.

If it were me making a purchase, I would NOT opt for a lightweight benchtop saw. Do as you have stated and make a table top to cover it when not in use.

If I were going for a newer one, look into the used contractor Delta, Jet or Powermatic. Probably pic one of those up for $250 or so. A used cabinet saw is about $600 or better, unless you get a smokin' deal.

Brand new, I would opt for the Rigid saws...you'll still be about $600, but gain some safety features that might not be present on older saws.

Lastly, and I may be being presumptuous in assuming you've not had much experience on a table saw, but I tell this to anyone who is in the market for a table saw for the first time, make sure you understand the things that CAN go wrong on a table saw, and WHY. With a table saw, some of the bad things that can happen are not obvious.

Darrin

This is the Craftsman era to which I'm referring.

http://www.owwm.com/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=1337

What you need is a good saw , 10 inch saw is most common. As for the Craftsman , I have a few of them. What you need to know is how good the arbor is . This is the first thing to wear . Also how good the fence is and parallel to the blade. In most cases the saw is only as good as the fence installed on it .
Quality saws will often have a cast iron table . Stamped steel tables are not a sign of quality. Also the arbor adjustments should be smooth working and not overly tight to work . I agree the older saws are often more solidly built . More often than not old saws may have bearing problems .
I have a new Steel City that replaced my older sears , older Rockwell or Delta saws would be my first choice for this as they are heavily built and often are easily repaired with standard bearings . Also if you can find a saw with extensions is a plus .

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I have a Bosch saw and I love it. The only complaint I have is that the table isn't steel so you can't use magnetic featherboards and such. But I've found it more than adequate for everything I need it for. It sits outfeed side towards the back wall of my shop on the little red folding stand it came with and I just pull it forward when I need to use it. The new Ridgid ones also look pretty slick...

I was pressed for space when I first started and bought a small portable type saw, a Dewalt. It was okay, and would get the job done, but I had to mess with the fence constantly and check it often to get accurate enough cuts. I've gone on to a Grizzly (675 model?) that I never mess with and it cuts much more accurately. I could not go back. I do still have the Dewalt and have it dedicated to fret-slotting.

The only issue I have with some Craftsman models is the crappy fence. I just bought a used Rigid that has a great fence. Get an all cast iron top. Buy yourself a Freud Diablo thin kerf blade.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

I added a cast iron router table wing on my House of Tools contractor saw. With a router fence added onto the left side of the tablesaw fence, it is space saving as well as very solid and accurate. As per Steve's suggestion. A 7 1/4" Diablo blade gets used for 95% of everything I cut, with the 10" blades only being used occasionally.

Steve, years ago when I had that little Craftsman saw I bought a Rigid fence on clearance at Home Depot for $50. Worked great. I then made my own Biesemeyer type fence and sold the Rigid one for $100 on Ebay.

The nice thing about a lot of the old tools is that quite often the bearings are a standard size available at Graingers or the like. Just got new bearings for a moderately older drill press, (1970's). Graingers had them in stock for $8 apiece. In my opinion, Craftsman products prior to 1970 ish seemed to be of good quality. Delta has always been very solid. My "new" table saw is a 1969 Delta Unisaw. My "new" lathe is a Delta, made in 1945, and as John stated, has bearing issues that we'll get resolved.

Darrin

I be an old tablesaw advocate.
I've burned up a Makita, a cheap delta, and a Ryobi.
To me, those light weight saws are good for putting in your truck
to use on the jobsite.
My friend loaned me his 10" Delta tilting arbor saw, and that was mighty nice!
I had to give that up, because I moved,
and now I still use my dads old Delta Homecraft.
He's dead, so it's mine now.
I built a new base for it out of wood, and it's the same heighth as my movable workbenches.
Direct drive sucks.
A friend just got at an auction a nice Rockwell, similar to mine, for a c note.
The fence on mine is okay. You can adjust the parralelity to the blade.
You can also get a better fence.
I like mine.
I just put a Freud 60 tooth 7 1/4" blade on it, and it cut bindings very nicely.
Nice and smooth.
Make sure you got no wobble at the blade.
Okay, I'll shut up now.
Oh, one more thing, I use a tablesaw a lot.
Probably # 1 shop tool for me.

I will second (or third) the Freud 7 1/4" saw blade. I hear that they are cheap in the US but mine cost $20 after a long search. The kerf is around 1/16" but I get 1/8" on my table saw because it is a tad out of line.
Go for an old one.

Bob

Paul, I'm just like you. I've been building for a couple of years. I don't yet have all the power tools I need. And I'm trying to acquire them. I want to do quality work, but I don't have a lot of space, or cash. It's a tough place to be in.

But let me tell you that I picked up an old craftsman saw just like the one in Darrin's link off of craigslist for $30. Maybe it's where I'm at in west michigan, but this wasn't just a fluke thing, there are deals like this on there all the time. I recently got 2 jointers, a drill press, and a 9" bandsaw. Just watch for deals.

I love my table saw. After I bought it, i put a new belt and a blade on it and it works great.

once you swap the blade on one of these you will understand real fast why you will eventually need more than one.

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"...you have to get over your strict adherence to your largely imagined notion of absolute perfection..."

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your local craigs list probably has a fairly new table saws listed. If your not going into the woodworking business and not continually ripping or cutting 4X8X3/4 or 2X10X12 footers, I would go with a portable unit...for ease of storing. For the most part, guitar building doesn't require a massive heavy unit...unless you are a tool geek like most of us. Don't buy the cheapest unit out there either. Your biggests issue will be the fence and truing it and your blade parallel. If you don't do that...you'll be making very uneven cuts, binding your wood (serious kickback and potential injury). Table saws are probably the most dangerous of all your shop tools. Respect it.
Kent

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Wood Creations by Kent A. Bailey
EXCELLENCE IN SCULPTURE, CARVING, LUTHIER, ARCHITECTURAL MILLWORK AND DESIGN

http://www.kabart.com

i have a 10" ridgid saw and love it ,a little stronger motor would be nice but has handled everything so far the fence locks down super tight and straight also use a quality blade as this is just as important as the saw itself.Ridgid also makes a fold up contractors saw

hope this helps
nelsonp

Kent -

Hear, here. Seems like every time someone posts one of those "don't do this" pictures of missing fingers, etc., it's almost always the tablesaw. Great tool, and demanding of respect and care.

Can I just add the contrarian voice, and ask the question why do you want a table saw. What use are you going to put it to that requires only this tool? I have made approaching 50 instruments now, and only used a table saw on the first one, and then only because everyone said you need a table saw. After a year or so when the table saw had only fulfilled the first word of its name and functioned as just a table, I got rid of it and never once missed it. Most jobs that you do on the table saw you can also do on a decent band saw, or heaven forbid, a hand saw. They take up a lot of space and they can be treacherous tools for the occasional user.

Just a thought.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I just bought a DeWalt Model # DW745 from Home Depot.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1 ... ogId=10053

I agree that it has somewhat limited use for instrument making, but it is great for making jigs. I just used it to make a bender, form, and mold (along with my band saw of course...). Very nice for making repeatable cuts. This saw got good user reviews. The fence seems to be true and it works nicely. I got it on-sale for $300. I bought a folding stand seperately from Amazon. I am please with it.
Steve

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

I also use the Dewalt 745. It is a decent but loud saw for and guitars it only gets used for slotting fretboards. The motor is strong enought to easily rip 8/4 Maple, Oak, and Mahogany as long as you use the right blade. With the small table cutting big stock can be a challenge.

I would like to get a nice cabinet saw like the Sawstop ICS, but that would be for building furniture and jigs. Only other thing I can think of using a table saw for on guitars is cutting neck joints, but so far I am happy doing thiis with a handsaw and chisel.

-jd

I got a big tablesaw for free from someone who couldn't do woodworking anymore. I guess he figured I'd get good use of his tools. Very fortunate thing that pretty much started my career. It's a nice big saw and pbviously a pretty good machine, but I only ever use mine for ripping large billets for necks and it gets good use in the jig making department as well. If my bandsaw table was bigger, I wouldn't have it anymore. I'd trade it in on a good router with a dust vac attachment and savour the extra room I'd have

I could use tools other than my table saw for many tasks, but boy I sure would hate to loose my saw, I think it is a great tool for luthiers.

Greg

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Gwaltney Guitars

Ok - so here's one thing I was thinking would be easier with a table saw and good blade.

viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=30347

(tapering pre-slotted and radiused fingerboards)

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P A U L B U R N E R
Burner Guitars

No problems with chipping on the edges of the fret slots with a hand plane?

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P A U L B U R N E R
Burner Guitars

Paul,
I got the Sawstop contractor saw and I tell ya, one of the best purchases I have ever made. Its precise and safe.

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

If you find a good deal on a used Ryobi BT3100 (or 3000, older model), that may be worth a look. I love mine, it was about $300-350 new but has been discontinued for some time. Don't buy one unless it comes with the accessory table with the two miter slots. It can be set up precisely and it's plenty of power for most luthiery work, especially a hobbiest. It's got an aluminum top on it so it's not so heavy, which is good for my upstairs-spare-bedroom shop. Some guys ask too much for used BT3000 models because they were closer to $600 when they first came out.

Sears actually sells a rebranded model of this that comes on a nice folding stand, but it's fairly expensive (closer to $500-600 I think) and I don't think the miter table accessory is available anymore.

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Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR