Official Luthiers Forum!

Simon, while you will never convert me ( ) from tradition, that sinker is just striking. Absolutely right about the African blackwood or ebony...
Greg G, if I had to switch from ivoroid, that holly is lovely!

Simon, those are some great guitars and I like the classical guitar quotes in them.

I have a few questions about your back reinforcement strip treatment. For how long are you doing this? Do you think there is a risk of cracks forming along the strip and traveling through all the transverse brace gates?

I have thought about the same trick when I built a 3 piece back. My problem is that I glue the braces on the rims first. The reinforcement strips are on the back of course and there really has to be a perfect fit otherwise you might end up with some nasty issues: visible gaps between strip and brace, or worse, the back not falling into position resulting in a big gap between brace and back. After 10 backs closed this way I came to be confident and the fitting looks good, however with 3 or worse 4 piece backs I might think about trying this trick. Simple, worry free and looks cool to whoever peaks in.

Actually if there is a potential for a crack traveling, it might be better, as in easier fix, to have a crack there than somewhere in the quarters. Or even, sort of a pressure valve? Maybe it actually helps the back "breathe" a little more?

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Build log

Hi Alexandru,
I don't see any structural issues with cracking. I view it as just being there for back-up for the centerseam joint. Also, I don't use cross-grain material for the centerseam. I realized that we have this great little brace on the back and then we go and cut it where the back braces intersect - eliminating any strength that it gives to the back. I make the centerseam "brace" about 0.5" x 0.125". I am thinking about making the transverse braces have a much more subtle "jump" over the centerseam brace -- essentially making it look like the back is normally constructed.

What this accomplishes is a much stronger back. The longitudinal radius (I build with 15') stays accurate during glue-up and I also feel that this brace will help prevent the neck resets. I believe this provides a great deal of resistance to the back radius flattening as the headblock wants to rotate forward into the soundhole. Not as much an issue for classicals but definitely something to consider with a steel string.

Additionally, every guitar is different but this modification certainly hasn't hurt the sound of my instruments. It makes the back stiffer -- which may or may not be a desirable thing for other builders.

Some classical builders make it long-grain too, for example Romanillos, Marin Montero and Santiago Marin.
Why don't you add a Spanish foot to the endblock as well?

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Build log

valleyofelah , I love the look of that guitar ! Where the sound hole is usally , you have a vertical stripe , cant tell more in pic . would you please explain the feature

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

thanks wudwerkr, the vertical stripe is one of the soundholes for this one. I couldn't use a circle because of my bracing structure, so this was pretty much my only option on this one. The pic of the braced top isn't this one, but this was deviated from this one. The differences are that this one has an x brace above the bridge patch, an upper transverse brace, and the bridge patch is just maple without the coco piece in it.

That's a pretty unique and cool looking guitar! Is the top redwood? I like the 'distressed' look and would love to know if there was anything you did to create it, asside from using an old distressed top. .

How did you bend the braces for the top in the photo? Bending top braces could open up some interesting structural possibilities.

Charlie, the top is sinker redwood and I did a sunburst on it and then rubbed it with acetone in to make it look old and somewhat worn.

This is probably one of the most special guitars I've ever created. Not only from a performance standpoint, but from a significance side for me personally. A background of this model;

It started in early 1997. I, being drawn to the music of Phil Keaggy, and a budding luthier decided to make a guitar that would excel at a more modern fingerstyle guitar. I wanted it to be expressive, loud, responsive, enveloping, full bodied yet balanced. I set out to create this. Being the typical young egotistical male I figured I could pretty easily build such a guitar (even though I had only built two guitars prior... what a fool!). I gathered all my notions on how to create this instrument and began. Five months or so later protoype #1 was born. One month later protoype #1 was destroyed (my wife got to smash this one on the ground like a rock star). The first one was rather laughable. It sounded so horrible. Totally unbalanced, muddy, no projection, ect. It was bad. And so my journey began. I was determined to build this guitar that produced a sound like I had in my head. I built 9 more of these models. Some slightly better, some very bad.

In 2005 I exhibited at my first Healdsburg Guitar Festival. It was an awesome experience. For one I sold everything at my table which was nice, but even more so were a couple interactions. The first was with Fred Carlson. If you don't know who Fred is you're missing out. He builds incredible instruments. Very off the beaten path, artistic, elegant, wild. www.beyondthetrees.com He came over and he sat and played a little 00 12 fret guitar I had for a good 30-45 minutes. He is such a nice, soft spoken guy and he liked my guitar, and gave me some pointers as well. The second part was a bit of luck, or fate, or whatever. My table was in the midst of some of the worlds best Luthiers. Yes the whole place was filled with the worlds best luthiers, but directly to my right was Ervin Somogyi, Directly to his right was Grit Laskin. Right in front of me was Fred Carlson, Right next to Fred was Charles Fox with his new Ergo guitars when he first released them.

I got a chance to play lots and lots of guitars. A few really stood out in my memory. Bruce Sexauer had a fan fret Brazilian guitar that was really nice. Howard Klepper had a small bodied red parlor guitar that was very cool and vibey. Mike Doolin had some really awesome guitars too that I didn't think I'd like, but ended up really digging. Sitting 3 feet from me the entire show was one of the 3 best guitars I've ever played. A Somogyi Brazilian/European OM. It was so unique. It's tone was different. Big and projecting, but hollow (in a good way.. like a reverb in a empty room), and enveloping. Balanced, slightly brittle sounding, but full. It was the first Somogyi I had ever played. In fact I had never heard of Ervin before strange as that may sound to us guitar nuts. It wasn't that that guitar was better than any of the others, but it was just so unique.

It really changed the way I thought about this new model I had been working on. I chatted with Ervin for a while when he didn't have a crowd around him (which was almost non-stop). He was very generous with his time and knowledge. He never told me how he braces his guitars but it didn't matter. He gave me some other nuggets that changed the way I thought about things.

When I went home I had new ideas I wanted to try. I built 4-5 more and the difference was stunning. I was taking my experience, combining it with other thinking and creating something new. Now these prototypes weren't there yet, and I knew that, but the direction in which they were heading was the way I wanted to go. Abaout a year ago Ervin released a couple books on his thoughts on guitar acoustics and building. I, of course, bought them and have read them through a couple times. There are number of things in there I just don't agree with, Some that were revelations to me, but there is even more than lines up strangely with what I had "developed" (more like discovered for myself) over the past 13-14 years. I incorporated a couple more things and built #16. A Wenge/Sitka model. The results were so close to what I wanted I was taken back. The only thing I disliked about it was the balance. In my effort to build lighter it turned out a bit woofy, and unable to drive at all. But played softly it was magic. I destroyed it (I kind of wish I hadn't now) and started #17 which you see here. #17 has almost everything I would look for in this style of guitar. It gives up a tiny bit of responsiveness and in exchange gained a LOT of versatility and I attribute that tot he top that was used. Normally I would want to use a slightly softer, yet stiff wood on the top. European spruce. I was looking through my top woods trying to find one that I would use on #17 when I came across one of the stiffest tops I've ever felt. It was crazy how stiff and resonant it was. Looking back I probably could have built it even lighter due to the stiffness, but I stopped when I had went further than any guitar before. This Lutz spruce top, even though thin and light, has virtually zero belly behind the bridge. It's got that big, full, hollow, crisp, reverby, harmonically rich tone. To my surprise it handles a pick quite well too. Again I atribute that to the ultra stiff Lutz top.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

Looks rich and elegant, John, and a nice commentary. Your photography has come a long ways too.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Thanks , that second set of pics was easier to distinguish . couldnt tell at first it was a sound hole . I would love to hear a sound clip of the guitar

Is the brace pattern your concept , or where did it come from ?

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

John I really enjoy reading your posts and your guitars are stunning. I find the quality of instruments post here something to aspire too.

All the best

Dave

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To be someone must be a wonderful thing!

Simon, I really dig these guitars! Is the rosette on the ADI top a mixture of different woods? What woods did you use?Love the look it creates.

Thanks for posting the pictures.......and I like your ideas on the back seam brace. I've considered running a carbon fiber strip down the inside of this brace (where it is invisible) just to add some strength to the back to support the neck block. I finally decided that it would be no stronger than the strength/stiffness provided by the arch of the back (if the arch gives, the CF would no longer be under tension). A decently thick center seam brace with the grain running parallel to the back does seem to add some stiffness to the arch of the back.

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

Absolutely.

Stunning guitars Kent, Burton, and John! Truly showing off the Good Stuff!

Ken

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http://www.casperguitar.com