Official Luthiers Forum!

I've got to get out more. Things keep changing and nobody tells me.
I need more alcohol for making shellac for french polishing, so I decided to get some Everclear at the liquor store to avoid breathing the fumes from whatever they put into alcohol from the paint store - benzine or whatever. So, I went to the local liquor store and they sat that it's illegal to sell in Minnesota. To high an alcohol content! And you used to could buy it in Wisconsin but Wisconsin banned anything higher than 153% alcohol. What's happening? Wisconsin used to be where you could buy near beer if you were in kindergarten.
So, I still needed alcohol so I went to my favorite hardware store. And they were gone. Out of business! And they didn't bother to tell me!

Does anyone know if you can buy the 190 proof Everclear in Michigan?

190-proof
It is illegal to sell the 190-proof variety in some states of the United States, namely California, Florida,[3] Hawaii, Iowa,[4] Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota,[5] Nevada, New Hampshire, New York, Ohio, Virginia, and Washington.
Everclear 190 is legally sold in Alabama, Arizona, Colorado, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho,[6] Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Jersey, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon,[7] Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Wisconsin, and Wyoming, and in some military stores within the continental United States.

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Bobby Masten

Legal (or at least available in liquor stores) in the District of Columbia too as of a few months ago.

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Evan McCartney

Dan, I get mine at the liquor store in St. Croix Falls. Never have a problem.
Also available in South Dakota.

I'm sure you could hop across the border anywhere and get it in WI. Even though we're past peak, I'm sure a trip across the St. Croix River would be scenic this weekend.

Dave

But they sale 151 proof Everclear in Florida. After this bottle is gone I'll probably just switch to denatured .

There are things in the US version of DNA I don't want to breathe or absorb though my skin. Check this MSDS for Kleen-Strip DNA: http://www.wmbarr.com/ProductFiles/rCSL26.pdf Scary stuff.

Just stopped in on vacation the other day to look at a nice 40oz bottle of 94% alcool in Quebec, Canada. $61.00. Yikes, no duty free there.

Passed on that, and hoping that around $10 for the same volume of life brand rubbing alcohol (the ethel one, not the other) will do the trick here in Canada a lot cheaper....

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If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason. - Jack Handey

Dave
My daughter (and one of my guitars) lives in St Croix Falls and we go there regularly. I'll look into Everclear there.

The guy in the liquor store here said that WI changed the limit to 160 proof a couple of months ago. What's the other stuff in it? Water? And what does that do to shellac?

It might take it longer to disolve the shellac flakes. The 151 has been working for me.

I've been able to walk into my local building supply and also the auto paint store and buy either Startex or Sunnyside denatured alcohol. They are both 95% alcohol. What would make those different or inferior to a 150 or 160 proof everclear? I'm in Calif. so buying anything over 150 proof in a liquor store is impossible. The only everclear I have ever seen here was what my father brought back from Ireland in Fanta bottles 30 years ago.

Tim

People are worried about the 5% of chemicals in denatured. From my understanding the chemicals were put there so people wouldn't be able to drink it. That way all the taxes aren't paid on it like liquer. Thus it's pretty cheap to by. I used it before using everclear and as much as I use shellac I really don't see a problem with denatured. I'm more concerned about the fumes from CA and epoxy and nitro.

I've always thought it was pretty harmless too. Actually enjoyed the smell. I would never use a cartridge respirator and only used Nitrile gloves when I padded Shellac to keep my hands clean. When cleaning up with a rag or paper towels I didn't think twice about getting it on my hands. Then I read the MSDS after reading a discussion on a Woodworking forum. The MIK they put in the US version is nasty stuff...especially if you don't have good ventilation. If you want to use it have good ventilation and wear gloves. The EU version has Naptha added.

From the Material Data Safety Sheet:
Chronic Exposure Effects:
May cause symptoms listed under inhalation (dizziness, headache, watering of eyes, irritation of respiratory tract, irritation to the eyes, drowsiness, nausea, other central nervous system effects, spotted vision, dilation of pupils, and convulsions) dizziness, fatigue, tremors, permanent central nervous system changes, blindness, pancreatic damage, and death.


Brushing/Padding plain Ethanol (Everclear/Shine/etc) and Shellac has a much lower risk profile than drinking Ethanol. If you spray it you can get pretty loaded breathing the aerosol and you don't want to spray it without a cartridge respirator. Otherwise good ventilation and common sense will take care of you.

Oh, crap! Another thing that will make me go blind!

Probably wouldn't want to use down there either.

I'd probably switch to a different finish entirely before using denatured alcohol. FP is enough work as it is, don't want to go adding safety concerns too. I hate the clammy feeling of rubber gloves, so I only put one on the right hand that's in direct contact with the pad the whole time, and then sometimes cut it so only the fingers are gloved. Left index finger and thumb get shellac/alcohol all over them when reloading and working it into the pad, then wipe on paper towel so the alcohol doesn't dry them out much. Also use the left index with alcohol to rub out marks if the pad sticks. Glove would probably try to stick, and couldn't feel when the surface is smoothed out. I get my face pretty close to see what's happening sometimes too. Way too much of a pain if I had to make sure I didn't get any on my skin or breathe too close to the work.

Luckily I live near the KS/MO state line, with 190 plentifully available in both, so not likely to have any trouble finding it in the near future I wonder if it would be considered a hazardous substance for mailing, due to flammability. The big jugs are about $35 and would do quite a few guitars, so add maybe $15-20 shipping and it's still pretty cheap as far as finishes go.

FWIW, I have Crohn's disease and cannot handle fumes from most finishing products. It was this that led me to French Polish on my first attempt at guitar finishing. I live in Michigan. It is not legal to buy 190-proof everclear here. I bought a bottle while in Kentucky. (But they also have it in Indiana).

So, after using up all my everclear (or did someone develop a habit of sipping from it?!? ) I needed more, so I tried denatured alcohol, and I must say, it wasn't so bad. Handling naphtha bothered me much more. I'll probably continue using denatured alcohol, and this is coming from someone very sensitive to chemical fumes.

I use nitrile gloves on both hands. maybe that clammy feeling comes from the warm summers of Kansas? I'm doing FP in my basement. not-so clammy hands down there.

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"...you have to get over your strict adherence to your largely imagined notion of absolute perfection..."

So, continuing my efforts at not poisoning myself with fumes from denatured alcohol, I decided that it was less expensive to pay $16 for FedEx shipping of one liter of Everclear from the Wine Chateau in New Jersey than it would cost me to drive my gas guzzling truck to North Dakota and buy it.
At my age and considering the number of guitars I'm likely to french polish, I think there should be some left over so that at my wake, they can 'whirl the Everclear round like blazes'. (My apologies to Finnegan's Wake)