Official Luthiers Forum!

Anyone used African mahogany for back and sides that could compare it tonally to Honduras and where does Cuban fit in as far as tonal characteristics?

I've got some African that's really old. I bought a bunch from a builder who was building in the '60's and '70's. It's great stuff, at least tap wise. I'll let you know about the finished product in a few more weeks.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

I have built 5 with African . All came out very nice . I like this better than the Honduran. With the CITIES restrictions the quality of Honduran is falling. The African does a great job . Cuban , is also a good one but it is terribly hard to find good stock.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

double hit sorry

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Haans,

Which wood do you mean by "African mahogany" - the various Khaya species or Sapele or . . .? The khaya I've used has a more "fibrous" texture than the true mahoganies (Swietina sp.) but makes a good b/s wood but Sapele is a better looking wood imho. Cuban mahogany is usually denser than Hoduran and has a really great patina and look (the old stuff that I have use has anyway) and tonally I describe it as "a mahogany with aspirations to be a rosewood" - it has that "reverby" quality I find in rosewoods (sorry for the "wine tasting" vocabulary). All this depends on the pieces of wood of each species that you get as always.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

A point I did leave out is that there are a few species that are often called African Mahogany. Khaya can vary in wood density so select your wood from someone you trust. This wood can also run from plain and boring to high figured. I liked the ribbon and used that and the plain. I have also use sapele and that was high figure and very dense. In all cases they made nice sounding instruments. I did one as an OM cutaway with hog top , a few with sitka and one with red.
The more I use this wood , the more I like it .

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I really wish suppliers would get more accurate at identifying these woods.

From what I've seen, Sapele is very consistent, more so than Honduran. More dense than all but the heaviest Honduran with a brighter tap tone.

The wood I've bought as Khaya varies more but any I've seen is way less dense than Honduran and has a tap tone somewhat like cardboard. I built one guitar with it about 12 years ago and didn't love it. I use it a lot for necks but it's interlocking grain and soft, ropey texture make it unfriendly to edge tools and rasps.

I've seen some darker stuff in the "African" bin that I couldn't identify that is quite dense and nice looking with a hint of purple. I'd be curious to use some of it if I found it in big enough pieces.

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http://www.chassonguitars.com

Sipo????? I've used it for necks, but haven't found any big enough for backs/sides.

_________________
I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

the top is still 90% of the guitar . Brace accordingly

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I've build many times with africain mohagany. Sounds and works great.

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Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)

Thanks Folks!
Unfortunately, I went back to the store and the plank was snatched up by someone. I have a feeling it was Khaya. I spied it while I was buying some premium QS white oak in wide boards, and spending too much $$ stopped me from grabbing it. So, yesterday I snatched up a plank of 14" wide QS ribbon Sapele. That'll make a few 12 strings...
John, while I would agree with you that the top is most important, I probably would say that the back plays a more important part than 10%. Pretty hard to make a BRW 12 string sound like mahogany or oak. On mandolins I got so involved with the maples used on backs that not only did I have them separated by species, but had them graded into soft, medium and hard for each species. There's quite a difference between bigleaf or Bosnian when compared to sugar, tonally.

I agree 10% is a guess but I don't think it is half. There big factors are , tops and bracing there , then the woods mass and density. Also one factor not mentions is the art of the wood joinery. This is one thing that is most important. I have a sapele set that was heavy and very dense. While the guitar came in heavier than I like , it is a power house.
The guitar is a sum of its parts . All things will effect it to a degree . After 112 guitars I am now starting to learn . Torres , to prove this point built a guitar out of paper mache . An interesting experiment for sure.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Agree, John.
Torres might have used paper mache, but Ovation used PLASTIC!
I'll stick with wood.

I gotta say -- I always use caution when the lumber bin says "African Mahogany"

I have some that is softer and mushier than Genuine -- that stuff feels almost like cedar
Some is really ropey, and some is not....
I have some that is hard and dense and pingy... like a really hard Sapele...
Some is figured, some is plain, Some is more Yellow, some is orangey, some some is brown.

My guess is that if the woodcutters have African Wood that is brown and medium density -- it ends up in the "African Mahogany" bin...

Overall, I like the color... so I am sure I will use it eventually....

Luckily, the price is usually pretty good.. so If I find something I really like -- I buy it and don't look back....

Thanks

John

Posted the first photo on another thread, but here's the sapele and a cut from the re-saw. I cut them rather generous at around .180", but prefer it that way. I will get 7 sets out of the board big enough for a GC. The wood cuts easily with the carbide blade, and a half back is heavy, sounds a bit like oak (that's great!), kinda thuddy, but has more of a ping to it than oak. I think they will make great 12 strings. Price per set...$14.

Some mighty nice boards there Hanns, and that sapele sawed up great.
And you're only wanting $14 a set for them eh? Count me in!

Joe

I'll send ya a box of sawdust, Joe!