Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Sun Aug 10, 2025 6:10 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:26 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:50 am
Posts: 942
Location: Ellicott City, Md - USA
First name: John
Last Name: A
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hi everyone,

I want to put a leaf in the finish of my guitar. I am not at that stage yet - but I will be french polishing - is there a way to preserve the leaf and shape - maybe poly over the leaf after it is dry ? is there a way to preserve the color of the leaf ?

On fly rods a feather is sometimes inset near the handle and coated with the varnish. I am thinking of the same thing - but with a leaf.

Thanks !

_________________
It's this new idea from recent decades that everyone gets a participation award. - MUX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:48 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:09 am
Posts: 51
City: East Boston
State: MA
Zip/Postal Code: 02128
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
I think it's a great idea. I don't know what all of the steps will be but you've touched on the first. I'd start by drying the leaf in the pages of a book that you the tightly clamp so that it dries as flat as possible.
I suspect it will be tough to french polish as you'd have to have quite a buildup of finish to cover the leaf and create a flat surface. Will it be on the headstock? Maybe you could use varnish or lacquer there and then french polish the rest of your instrument.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:55 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:50 am
Posts: 942
Location: Ellicott City, Md - USA
First name: John
Last Name: A
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I was thinking more on the back upper bout. - So if it is a little bumpy it will only add interest and texture. I don't plan to route out a space for it and inset it - for simplicity sake, I would just like to lay it on top. Most likely regardless of the answers here I will try it and see how I like it.

_________________
It's this new idea from recent decades that everyone gets a participation award. - MUX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:03 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:08 pm
Posts: 426
First name: jim
Last Name: mccarthy
City: ojai
State: ca
Zip/Postal Code: 93023
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Any organic material will decompose if exposed to the slightest bit of oxygen. Unless you encase
the leaf in an airtight finish - which shellac is not - it will eventually become a problem.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:31 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:50 am
Posts: 942
Location: Ellicott City, Md - USA
First name: John
Last Name: A
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
runamuck wrote:
Any organic material will decompose if exposed to the slightest bit of oxygen. Unless you encase
the leaf in an airtight finish - which shellac is not - it will eventually become a problem.


Yes I figured the same - what finish do you suggest ? Poly ? how about encasing in a resin ?

_________________
It's this new idea from recent decades that everyone gets a participation award. - MUX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:04 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:34 pm
Posts: 2047
First name: Stuart
Last Name: Gort
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
There's a lot of moisture in a leaf. Trying to trap ANY moisture under a finish seems problematic. Soaking a leaf in saline solution (many possible solutions....alcohol....formaldehyde...I don't know) and then placing it under high vacuum might help prepare it for laminating.

I wouldn't bet a lot of money that this is going to work out without some pretty serious experiementation.

_________________
I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:11 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:05 am
Posts: 9191
Location: United States
First name: Waddy
Last Name: Thomson
City: Charlotte
State: NC
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Check with Michael's or some other craft store. There are products designed to put a leaf or a flower in that will preserve the color, yet remove the moisture. Probably some form of silica gel product, but they work. They have all kinds of stuff for scrap-booking dried leaves and flowers. That would be my first step. They also probably have some kind of clear coat preservative.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:13 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:57 pm
Posts: 775
Location: Powell River BC Canada
First name: Daniel
Last Name: Minard
City: Powell River
State: BC
Country: Canada
Freeze drying preserves the colour. As long as it's sterile (no active organisms present) & at least as dry as the wood, you should be able to pull it off. Pretty cool if you can make it work.
It might work well to inlay it & bed it in clear epoxy. Then you could retain some of the 3-D effect of the veins.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:27 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:51 pm
Posts: 1134
Location: Albany NY
First name: David
Last Name: LaPlante
Status: Professional
Our standard preservation solution for leaves and plant materials at the New York State Museum was a mixture of 25% Ethanol, 25% Acetone and 50% Glycerin.
The materials were immersed in this bath for several months. The solvents extracted the water from the leaves while the glycerin kept them soft and flexible.
I think the glycerin will be problematic with most finishes but alcohol and acetone should be ok.
Somehow I think that a leaf design inlay in a contrasting wood veneer (perhaps with burn-in tool veins etc.) is far more in keeping with the media used to create a guitar and ultimately far easier than what you're contemplating.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:55 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:50 am
Posts: 942
Location: Ellicott City, Md - USA
First name: John
Last Name: A
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Quote:
Somehow I think that a leaf design inlay in a contrasting wood veneer (perhaps with burn-in tool veins etc.) is far more in keeping with the media used to create a guitar and ultimately far easier than what you're contemplating.



Hence my plan B -

I wanted to avoid inlaying - I thought I would take the easier route and for something a little bit different - I don;t mind practicing inlaying as I have a lot of veneers I do not plan to use -

_________________
It's this new idea from recent decades that everyone gets a participation award. - MUX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:50 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:21 am
Posts: 4915
Location: Central PA
First name: john
Last Name: hall
City: Hegins
State: pa
Zip/Postal Code: 17938
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
While this may be a nice idea , there are way too many concerns for it. You should be better off inlaying a leaf or painting one. The leaf when dry will still be pretty thick and applying a French Polish to cover it would be a difficult task at best .

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:37 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:41 am
Posts: 160
It couldn't hurt to get some wood scraps and test out what you are planning on those before doing it on the guitar. Maybe this is a given but figured I would throw it in there. :mrgreen:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:18 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:51 am
Posts: 1310
Location: Michigan,U.S.A.
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
I think plastic resin would work just fine. I intombed this raccoon foot in it over 30 years ago and it's in the same condition as when i did it except for the resin yellowing some.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:51 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:41 am
Posts: 606
Location: LaCrosse WI
First name: Jason
Last Name: Moe
City: LaCrosse
State: WI
Zip/Postal Code: 54601
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
I used to do taxidermy in the past. There is a solution you can get. Heres the url: http://www.vandykestaxidermy.com/produc ... clear-pint

It makes the leaves and grass' stay soft and colorfast. Alot of people use it to make habitat for mounts more lifelike. It might work. There are different colors too.

_________________
Jason Moe
LaCrosse WI 54601


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:29 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:42 am
Posts: 1135
Location: Hudson, MA
First name: Kevin
Last Name: Quine
City: Hudson
State: MA
Country: Usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hey Mark....was the raccoon attached to that foot when you encased it?? wow7-eyes


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:59 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:49 am
Posts: 110
First name: Bert
Last Name: Foster
City: Gainesville
State: GA
Zip/Postal Code: 30506
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
I worked on a Martin D-18 with a broken head stock. While I was pulling the tuning machines off I saw a mosquito under the finish. Everyone that came by my shop for a week got a look at it. It made for a lot of laughs and bad jokes.

_________________
"Try to be the person your dog thinks you are."

http://sites.google.com/site/bertsguitarshop/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:34 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:51 am
Posts: 1310
Location: Michigan,U.S.A.
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
Quine wrote:
Hey Mark....was the raccoon attached to that foot when you encased it?? wow7-eyes

No, the rest of the coon went to the furbuyer. ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com