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 Post subject: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:34 am 
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Most of you probably saw my other thread, and there were a few pictures there, but I thought it might be a good thread to show how I re-topped my current build - Cocobolo/Lutz classical.

I made a mess of trying to repair some purfling issues on the top, where lines popped out. Lots of Spruce chip-out.
Attachment:
P1030994 (Large).JPG
Attachment:
P1030997 (Large).JPG


Using my Ridgid trim router, I routed the top just on the inside edge of the binding. I used the Ridgid because it is the only one with at bearing assembly that is adjustable enough to reach over the binding. On all the others you have to add a shim to get it out far enough. With the Ridgid, you can actually route inside by inches. If you have not looked at the new ones, you should. I remember a post by Dennis about them, and he was right. It's like they took all the complaints about trim router adjustibility and incorporated all the fixes in the new machine. Locking collar for gross adjustments, and a second locking collar for micro adjustments with a top mounted thumb wheel that you can actually get to, clear base to see your work, hole the right size for standard router bushing guides, plus all the attachments for nearly any use you can imagine, all for $99, including a lifetime service agreement. But, I digress. Routing out the top took several passes, with depth adjustments and width of cut adjustments, but went quickly. I left the binding in place to control the fit of the top. I did cut through it in a couple of places, by error, but I'm planning to rout it out anyway, so I didn't care. .
Attachment:
P1030998 (Large).JPG
Attachment:
P1040004 (Large).JPG


Thicknessed and joined a new Lutz top from some of Shane's stuff I had on hand.
Attachment:
P1030977 (Large).JPG
Attachment:
P1030978 (Large).JPG
Attachment:
P1030981 (Large).JPG


Here is the join line. I can live with this.
Attachment:
P1030986 (Large).JPG


More coming.


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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:48 am 
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Drew in the outline from my template, which I had checked, and it fit pretty well into the inside edge of the binding.
Attachment:
P1030991 (Large).JPG


Here is the inside of the guitar after routing off the top. Still needs some cleaning up around the edges, to get off the scraps of Spruce that are still attached, so I'll have a clean gluing surface.
Attachment:
P1040005 (Large).JPG


Fit of the template.
Attachment:
P1040011 (Large).JPG


Here is the edge of the new top - Nice!
Attachment:
P1040013 (Large).JPG


Repairing the middle TB, for a place where it split, when I was getting the top loose.
Attachment:
P1040015 (Large).JPG


Here, it's glued on with HHG. I did clean it up a little more, and it's pretty much invisible.
Attachment:
P1040016 (Large).JPG


Leveling the braces, mostly to get the center one to the right height. I left the addition a bit proud.
Attachment:
P1040017 (Large).JPG


Cut some fan and finger braces out and planed them to rough dimensions.
Attachment:
P1040019 (Large).JPG


Still more coming.


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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:03 am 
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Sanded the old top down from the back to thin it where the rosette is installed, so I could cut it out, and not have to work it too much after removing, as I was afraid it would be pretty fragile.
Attachment:
P1040020 (Large).JPG


Cut out the rosette with my trusty circle cutter. One nice thing about cutting the soundhole out with a circle cutter, is that it fits back into the hole with a friction fit, and makes it easy to center the circle cutter. It's also fast and clean, if you cut from both sides. I did loose the outside purfling strip, which was a strip of Cocobolo. I have some more of it.
Attachment:
P1040021 (Large).JPG


Thinned the back a bit more, till I could see the pattern through the Spruce.
Attachment:
P1040022 (Large).JPG


Jumping around a bit now. Here is the new top, cut to the template, but left the lines so it would be a bit proud. That way I can take down the areas that don't fit to get a nice tight fit. That will help keep things centered when I install it.
Attachment:
P1040025 (Large).JPG
Attachment:
P1040026 (Large).JPG
Attachment:
P1040027 (Large).JPG


Marking for cutting out the channel for the rosette in the new top.
Attachment:
P1040028 (Large).JPG


Carefully measured and cut the perimeter lines for the channel.
Attachment:
P1040031 (Large).JPG


Still more! gaah


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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:20 am 
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Removing the waste with a chisel. Why? Because it was quicker than setting up the router circle cutter, which uses the Ridgid.
Attachment:
P1040032 (Large).JPG


Here is the fit, and the strip of Coco for the outside ring.
Attachment:
P1040034 (Large).JPG


Glued it in with HHG.
Attachment:
P1040035 (Large).JPG


Thinned the lower bout to graduate it to the edges, and fitted it to the inside of the remaining binding.
Attachment:
P1040036 (Large).JPG
Attachment:
P1040037 (Large).JPG


Cut out the sound hole and prepared for gluing on the fan braces.
Attachment:
P1040040 (Large).JPG


Gluing in fan braces.
Attachment:
P1040041 (Large).JPG


Gluing in the rest of the finger braces, closing braces, and patches.
Attachment:
P1040044 (Large).JPG


Even more!


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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:37 am 
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Let's talk about shop clutter! Lets not! [headinwall] Here is the open body awaiting the top, while I carve braces.
Attachment:
P1040046 (Large).JPG


Checking the fit.
Attachment:
P1040047 (Large).JPG
Attachment:
P1040049 (Large).JPG


Marked the top for the glue areas that need to be covered. I decided to use HHG, since that's what I use when I glue tops in normally. This is just a bit different.
Attachment:
P1040050 (Large).JPG


Heated the areas around the top, and put beads of HHG in the necessary places, and glued the sucker down to the top. Using the solera this way kept everything in place. I was afraid if I put glue around the dentellones around the box, I'd have a glue mess inside the guitar, that would be impossible to clean up. this way, I'll have some run-out, but it'll stay on the top and not create a problem, and not be too visible.
Attachment:
P1040052 (Large).JPG


Here it is glued on. the center brace hung a bit on the neck patch, so I'm going to have to put some hhg in there and re-glue it, but I don't see a problem with that. It glued at the edges, but lifted in the center area. It's easy to reach and clamp. Overall, I'm pretty happy with the outcome. Now I can route off the binding and re-do the purfling and binding for the top. Shouldn't be too hard.
Attachment:
P1040055 (Large).JPG
Attachment:
P1040056 (Large).JPG
Attachment:
P1040057 (Large).JPG


One more post, and I'm outa here!


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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:44 am 
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At the waist.
Attachment:
P1040058 (Large).JPG


Just a couple of the glue inside.
Attachment:
P1040060 (Large).JPG
Attachment:
P1040061 (Large).JPG


Some glue outside the lines, but I'm not overly concerned with it. Now I have to get on with finishing this thing up. Next comes binding and purfling, and a bit of selective thinning around the upper bout, where it's a little proud of the neck join. Easily fixed, and re-gluing the middle TB. Almost back to where I left off.

Thanks for checking in. With all the talk about build threads, I thought this might be worthwhile.


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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:45 am 
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That looks pretty darn cool.

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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:50 am 
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Nice job Waddy [:Y:] And makes a great tutorial for anybody trying to remove a top for the first time.

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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:57 am 
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Thanks, boys, I'm happy it came out as well as it did.

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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:43 pm 
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Great job Waddy!! That was a brave move but the results are well worth the effort! Maybe I will use your courage as a motivator to get working on fixing this older Gibson J-55 that I need to fix up for a friend (Xis off on one corner and the top is sunk with about four major cracks). That new top you selected sure is perty!!

Shane

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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:45 pm 
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It had to be pretty, Shane! It was one of yours, as was the last one.

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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:10 pm 
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Impressive-no matter the level of experience-just plain impressive.


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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:50 pm 
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Thanks, Mike. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again, now, though I approached it with some apprehension.

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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:59 pm 
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Is there a simple word for "Glutton for punishment"?

Good job! Wouldn't want to have to do that too many times.

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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:47 pm 
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Waddy, looks like it came out great, good job!

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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:09 pm 
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Great job, Waddy - I truly hope I never have to go there.

How did you go about freeing up the top from the transverse braces? Was heat enough?

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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:36 pm 
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That was a bit tricky. I tried heat, but it didn't seem to work. I couldn't get pallet knives in there very well, as the finger braces were in the way. Finally I just worked a chisel in there, and broke it off. That's how I broke the middle brace. For the most part they came off reasonably clean. I did have a touch of top left in some places. Over all it was not as hard as I imagined it would be. I figured the worst that would happen would be that I'd have to re-make the TB's.

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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:46 pm 
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I saved this one Waddy........just in case a fellow builder needs the advice ;) Great save, some nice work and I'm sure a learning experience for you and others.


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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:59 pm 
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wow! nice days work, waddy!


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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:48 pm 
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Waddy,

I don't know how you can get so much done in a short amount of time !! taken me months to get what you did in a week ! and it looks great !

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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:39 am 
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Waddy , good great job. congret....

one more thing you should to do is to put together all your text and pic in one sequence and move it to tutorial section

once more good job

fric


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 Post subject: Re: Re-Topping #5
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:48 am 
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Thanks, guys!

Fric, you cant have more than 8 pictures in one post. Forum restrictions. It helps keep a large post from slowing things down so much when all those photos have to load.

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