Official Luthiers Forum!

I think some of you have been inhaling too much of your own lacquer!

It is possible to start building with few tools and a small inventory. I did. 99% of my tools have been purchased used, and I built jigs and small things as I went along, I still do. I never bought a Lie Nielsen plane or chisel, although they're located in Maine and I'd like to support them. I am very careful when I buy tonewood, I buy the best stuff, at the best price. I don't care about what some guys call "zoot". Most of it is BS (trendy abbreviation here) filled eye candy useless for a guitar. I care about the best stuff I can build with and what the average customer will request, period. After 40 guitars I have yet to receive a request for Brazilian rosewood, or "The Tree" or whatever. It is true that overhead is usually understated: supplies and maintenance add up at the end of the year.
So, from the start, little overhead, small inventory, no money borrowed.
I also live in a rural environment in a "poor" state where real estate is much cheaper than most places in the US. Most people get bogged down because of too much debt and a sense of entitlement that doesn't jive with reality.
My wife has a steady job that provides health insurance coverage for both of us: that's a big deal here in the US, unless you want to depend on the horse whisperer for basic ailments. I'd rather not.
We have a big garden and I cut my firewood for the winter, every winter. We live very well, and while I wouldn't say we're homesteading, we have shaved a fair amount of expenses considered "normal" for the US. We also drive used, low MPG vehicles.
I would still live in NYC or Paris (France) I am not sure I would have considered building full-time. In fact I am sure I wouldn't have.
As an aside, I just spent 4 days replacing my roof with a team of seasoned carpenters in the 80/95º heat.
Lutherie is a piece of cake!
I'm not getting that whiny attitude about how hard it is, and how many hours need to be spent in the shop and so on… Try roofing for a steady job, or even carpentry. It's nice: after 8 hours of this in the day I'm about done with. I'll easily trade it for 14 hours in the shop.
So it's all possible. I work like a devil, for sure. We all do. Since I tend to not exaggerate, I will say that I spend an average 12 hours/day in the shop and take a day of rest every other week, on average. You can't do this job if you sleep only 4 hours/night. Not for a long time. It requires too much concentration. You can't do this job if you don't have a ton of stamina either. Setbacks are numerous, Murphy's law ever present.
It's unfair that trust-funders and retired guys who don't need the income are getting in the business and are selling at ridiculous prices to try and get a piece of the cake. But who said life is fair?
And BTW I built my 1st guitar when I was 40.
In the end it's all about craftsmanship and how serious and talented you are. Craftsmanship and seriousness can easily be achieved, it's only a matter of work and practice. Talent, on the other hand…
The business side of lutherie is almost ridiculous. If you're capable of keeping balanced books, you're on your way. Advertising is most probably useless: it's a word of mouth/grapevine type of activity. And it goes fast if you're good, even in this half-recession.
I hope I'm not getting philosophical…
In any case the supply will not create the demand. Personally I live in a reality-based world. So, the more builders get in this business, the more will eventually have to give up. The market is too small, and is shrinking a bit since a couple of years.
It doesn't mean one shouldn't try, the more the merrier.
My only piece of advice would be to attend at least one guitar show like Healsburg or Montreal and have a look at the work of the best builders. That should set the bar for tone, craftsmanship, creativity and aesthetics. Those are the people you want to measure up to if you intend to make a living at it. And this is also the level expected by most buyers.

EDIT: And Howard is on the money, if not generous in his assessment. Very few builders make as much as what is even considered lower middle-class income. I don't, but I'm fine with it.

I'd quibble with one comment you made, though only to explore. I'm unconvinced that more folks in luthiery creates a supply side surplus for the market

It's unfair that trust-funders and retired guys who don't need the income are getting in the business and are selling at ridiculous prices to try and get a piece of the cake.

We all make our choices...

It's unfair that trust-funders and retired guys who don't need the income are getting in the business and are selling at ridiculous prices to try and get a piece of the cake. But who said life is fair?

Personally, I do not care what you guys do with your retirement. I really don't.

It's unfair that trust-funders and retired guys who don't need the income are getting in the business and are selling at ridiculous prices to try and get a piece of the cake.

It's unfair that trust-funders and retired guys who don't need the income are getting in the business and are selling at ridiculous prices to try and get a piece of the cake.

But who said life is fair?

So what would you do if you indeed win the lottery? Keep building guitars until the money runs out!

Well ok Howard, lets work from homunculi~isum or "theory" the question still stands..just who or what is
"the little man inside the brain." that does the thinking?

No, the question does not still stand. Your response is question-begging. It contains the very premise--that there is a homunculus in one's head--that is in dispute. I have attacked that premise with good reason: it is logically incoherent since it leads to a vicious regress. To which I might add that it is physiologically incoherent, too. If you want to still ask that question who the little fellow in our heads might be, the appropriate response is to first defend the premise that each of us has a little guy in our head doing our thinking; offer a refutation of my argument, or some good reason for thinking the homunculus conjecture is true.

I'm surprised at you for taking this position, frankly. It's incompatible with anything Shakyamuni would have said, too. [But I'm sure he did have a very low cost lifestyle]

So what I'm getting at is that if you want to make money doing lutherie you will have to do repairs and build when you can. If you just want to build and not do repair I think that would be incredibly tough.
Jason

Regarding thoughts and feelings

Well they both seem to pass through me just like do other vibrational frequencies (X rays for instance) and can rattle my cage so to speak making me aware of them. As such what ever it is that feels them feelings and thinks them thoughts sees them as transient guests in my consciousness. Yes, me may feel sad or happy or observe this that and the other kinda thoughts, but I believe I am that which observes the thoughts. and emotions and not the thougts themselves or the feelings, the conscious observer. More simply put...the consciousness. You may believe otherwise as you wish.

However me do gotts one more question of you Howard....

And its got to do with Stuarts "pretentious transcendencies" and that is your inside knowledge of what the Enlightened wood have said. Now if perchance you do have an inside line to Buddha~hood, please pray tell were me can get my ticket into his minds eye, I mean like come on Howard...share the word, spread it around, us inquiring minds would like to know.

blessings

Peace and carrots
be
Padma