Official Luthiers Forum!

Thanks John - grabbed that .pdf & will get it printed. I get the issue anyway now, so will be sure to keep a careful eye on the meeting of the boards:)

Thanks again guys for all the great info - much appreciated!

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If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason. - Jack Handey

If I didn't have radius dishes and an outside form, the first thing I would do would be to make them again.

Making radius dishes is messy, but it's really very simple. Certainly compared to the rest of guitar construction. Ditto molds. Costs for a pair of dishes and a mold: less than 40 bucks worth of MDF (Ply is too expensive here, and there's little advantage). This minimal cost is more than offset by time savings.

IMO it's simply a better way to build if you're making 'sperically' dished guitars, and even if you're doing some sort of hybrid (like a flatter upper transverse, for example). Dishing makes sanding the rims and linings trivially simple and provides a clean, accurate fit for gluing, and they work very well as gluing 'cauls' as well (for the back, anyway).

It's not 'vintage correct', but I don't build replicas, so I really don't care in the slightest.

I'll get some MDF & start making a couple dishes and a mold will be building go-bar deck & bending form/base as well ... maybe a jig or two ... should start getting to that first guitar in a year or two i suppose thanks for taking the time to pass along the tips!

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If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason. - Jack Handey

Here's the danger you are about to run into..... (Trust me on this....)

You can spend the next 2-years thinking about building, tooling up, building jigs, etc.... OR.. You can just start building a guitar on your kitchen table.

I recommend the Latter..... Why? The goal is to end up with a GUITAR -- not to build all that other stuff... That other stuff is there to help you accomplish the task of building multiple guitars more consistently.... Consistency isn't a problem on #1 -- because you have never built one before.... so you have nothing to be Consistent with....

You look into the Stew Mac catalog and on here and decide you can't build a guitar without $10,000.00 worth of expensive tools, jigs, and fixtures.... It just isn't true.... They are helpful, but certainly not necessary.... For example.. Make a jig or buy a tool once you get to a particular step and find you can't do without that particular tool.... You will be surprised to find that there is a way around almost every specialized tool and jig except for a very basic set...

So.. On the radius dish or go-bar deck.. By the time you figure out how to build one, get all the templates and supplies together, and pay for the $25.00 sandpaper disk... you could have already gotten your braces shaped with a hand plane and sandpaper stick... and then glued to the plates with some clamps and a few more sticks...

Personally.. I vote that you should start building. When you get to a step where you think you might need a big complicated jig or super specialized tool... look at the Cumpiano book and see if you really do...

Thanks

John

I agree. No need for a 'mini-factory'.... there's a lot of "I saw this in the Martin factory, so I built one for myself..."

Check out some of the 'older' instruction books from the 70s, or look at the B&W pics of the workshops of famous makers for some inspiration!

I do like my go-bar deck, though......
John

My plan all along has been to buy what I need as I go for the most part, just getting stuff that I will obviously need beforehand. Clamps being something I need more of ... then I started looking at how much it'd cost to buy a shedload of cam clamps, bar clamps, cs etc etc .... and figured go-bars could be the way to go. so the go bar deck. and the radius dishes i figured would compliment that for gluing braces etc... maybe keep it simple with a few strips of cork ... (?)

was going to just rig a bar and a torch for sides ... but then figured i'm going to build a few guitars to the same specs to start i figger, and don't want to really snap a bunch of sides, so the bending form might be worth building ... altho bending with a bar is probably something worth learning in and of itself as well I guess ... so maybe i should just go back to that idea.

the outside form looks pretty useful if you're going to be using the radius dishes for the clamping deck anyway i thought as well ... but maybe that is starting to get to be too much plywood work, not enough guitar ...

other miscellaneous jigs i don't really have planned out yet, but just figured i'd need to figure a few things out along the way on that one.

also realize i have to start practicing putting some good edges on the old tools i've acquired to start hacking at the wood with, and maybe i should just focus on that and start working on the guitar wood before cutting up too much ply. so many decisions ... ah well, meanwhile my tonewood is acclimatizing more

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If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason. - Jack Handey

If you are going to make an outside mold, you could consider using the mold halves to bend your sides in, as shown in this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDQs4rnLbZU
This works particularly well if you have bandsawn your mold from a solid glue-up and have the 'core' to use as well.
That's how I bend sides now - if you want to buy my Fox-type bending machine, send me a pm.
In either case you will need a heating blanket (contact JohnHall @Bluescreek).
An iron (pipe and torch or pipe and heat gun) is cheaper, but a blanket and a form is a lot less frustrating. (I've done both; the iron is still handy for doing a binding strip or correcting a bend, etc..).

Cheers
John

how to bend a side without ever needing to take your smoke outta your mouth ... he does make it look easy!

ah i dunno what to do (don't have a bandsaw btw, was going to use jigsaw/router etc for the slices) ... i'll shoot you a pm on that bender, but i was thinking more along the lines of an 'el-cheapo' bender using a few bulbs for heat rather than one o them fancy blankets to start out - something like this: http://www.lint.org/TechNotes/lowcostbender.html

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If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason. - Jack Handey

not one of yu guys recommended the OLF plans At Stew Mac (shaking my head)

Been there, done that, as they say- a blanket is a lot more adaptable. Bulbs do work, but I've never heard of somebody switching from a blanket to bulbs, though lots have made the opposite change. (ie- you will get the blanket eventually,probably, so why not bite the bullet and get it right off the bat.....)
If you want to keep it simple, use the propane torch and the pipe method. Just my 2 cents worth....

John

You mean the plans discussed in this thread?
http://www.mimf.com/cgi-bin/WebX?128@1.e4zkaTDFFqE.8@.2cb6d1e9


I think the OP was specifically asking for dread plans, and I haven't seen them via OLF...probably I'm missing something?

The OLF plan is also $29 vs the $12.50 McRostie plan......

Was ther a spefic coment meant?

If the guy built the tone bars at right angles he did not follow the plans
Any one that built my OM or SJ have issue with the bracing? please let me know.

pretty uncuth

Another easy way, suggested to me by Bob Taylor for our student woodshop guitars:
Make all braces with completely flat bottoms.
Dry the top so that it shrinks slightly. We use a space heater in a cardboard box, and shrink by about 0.060" across a 16" lower bout. An oven also works if you're careful.
Glue the braces on promptly (on a flat surface). We use CA glue -- very quick, of course, and doesn't add humidity.
When the top rehumidifies, it develops a gentle longitudinal-axis radius (barrel-shape)... 0.060" typically gives around a 20' radius.

I'm not suggesting this for a high-end guitar: it doesn't give very tight control on the radius, and can't make a spherical shape if you want that. We like it because the braces are simpler to make, it requires no jigs, and it's quick and easy to do.

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David Malicky

Thanks for all the perspectives.

ED

yep - was looking at a standard 14 fret martin type dread, figured the McRostie herringbone plans could be the ticket, was glad to hear confirmation they're decent plans, and waiting to receive them:) the J45 is just butt ugly

thanks again guys, for all the tips ... one fine day before too long i'll actually start putting steel to wood ...

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If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason. - Jack Handey

T'em is fight'n words.

[quote="AlBDarned" the J45 is just butt ugly [/quote]