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 Post subject: Humidity Control
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:27 am 
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Walnut
Walnut
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 11:47 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Pike Road, Al
First name: F. Scott
Last Name: Campbell
City: Pike Road
State: AL
Zip/Postal Code: 36064
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Just how important is it? I live in Alabama where the humidity is already appx 80% and even gets to the high 90s at times. Just curious. Thanks in advance.

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 Post subject: Re: Humidity Control
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:45 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:21 am
Posts: 2924
Location: Changes when ever I move..Australia
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Very important Scott.

If you glue up a guitar at 60% RH and someone then takes it to an area where it is regularly much lower or an environmental change takes place in your own area which does the same, the wood will try to contract as it looses moisture. When it finds itself lock into position by braces and unable to do so it must split as it has no other option. Don't forget, when you consider the thickness, you are working with very wide boards so there is much movement and in lutherie we are breaking 'the' golden rule of woodworking which is, avoid gluing anything across the grain.

Cheers

Kim


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 Post subject: Re: Humidity Control
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:45 am 
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Mahogany
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Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 10:29 pm
Posts: 60
First name: Gerould
Last Name: Wheeler
City: Hanahan
State: SC
Zip/Postal Code: 29410
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I find this very interesting and somewhat unnerving for me since the only place I have to build is my garage. It's not air conditioned and not heated...... Great subject and advice!


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 Post subject: Re: Humidity Control
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:49 am 
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Koa
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Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:17 pm
Posts: 534
Or you can just ignore it ...

Image

and get the invaluable experience of replacing the back. And even here I got lucky, closed box, but at least it happened before finishing.

Joe


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 Post subject: Re: Humidity Control
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:14 am 
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Contributing Member
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Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:19 pm
Posts: 614
Location: Sugar Land, TX
First name: Ed
Last Name: Haney
City: Sugar Land (Houston)
State: Texas
Zip/Postal Code: 77479
Country: USA
Focus: Build
As a reference point, I live in the Houston area which is also very humid much of the year. My home runs 45 to 50% during most of the year with the A/C running and no humidity control (room temp about 77F). I am almost complete with my new small garage shop. The garage is very humid now and I have some openings currently while that I am getting ready to close up. With the openings and my new small window A/C running the humidity is hovering around 60% while the room temp is 73F. I expect (hope) the humidity to drop when I close the openings to the humid garage. But I was surprised that the little window A/C unit can easily keep the room very cool (cooler than the house) and yet the humidity is much higher (60% vs 50% and less). I had expected the window A/C to be my humidity control like the house does, but I may be wrong and need another control.

Do these units both add humidity in the winter and remove it in the summer? Or are most folks buying two different units?

Ed


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 Post subject: Re: Humidity Control
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 2:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:19 pm
Posts: 614
Location: Sugar Land, TX
First name: Ed
Last Name: Haney
City: Sugar Land (Houston)
State: Texas
Zip/Postal Code: 77479
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Todd Stock wrote:
RH drop with a/c is a function of run time (coil area is fixed, and only so much water can be pulled out per minute of run time)...which is why folks that replace their older , smaller A/C units with over-sized ones often end up with less run time (and lower electric bills), but much less RH drop and ultimately less comfortable rooms. HVAC folks have formulas to size the unit to the space, and one of the concerns is getting enough run time to avoid turning a hot, humid house into a cool, humid house.

The short answer is that your window unit is not running long enough to drop RH, so either turn it down (if there is choice of fan speed/cooling settings which result in longer run time) or add a dehumidifier in the room to handle the job.

Those little combo heater/A/C units drop RH in the summer because water vapor in the room air condenses on the cool surface of the inside unit coils and drains that condensate to the outside. In heating mode, the inside coils or heating elements are warm (they stay well above the dew point of the room air), so while the temp may go up in the room, no water vapor is being added to the room air, so RH will drop. The only way to increase RH in heating mode is an add-on humidifier (with a water supply) or a separate free standing humidifier unit.


Agreed. My understanding is the same.

I purposely tried to err on the side of slightly under-sizing the window unit so it will run more to help dehumidify. I even spoke to an HVAC Engineer (one of the advantages of working in an engineering firm) and got his opinion on sizing. He thinks it might struggle to keep up during the summer, but we'll see (5,300 BTU unit in 160 sq. ft. room with very hot humid garage on the long wall side.). Of course, true hot weather (100+) is yet to arrive even though its been rather warn lately. And I've kept it on the low energy-saving fan setting. It has had no problem so far and we've had days of 95F (yikes!)


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 Post subject: Re: Humidity Control
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 2:44 pm 
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Walnut
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 11:47 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Pike Road, Al
First name: F. Scott
Last Name: Campbell
City: Pike Road
State: AL
Zip/Postal Code: 36064
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
My concern is this: My "shop" is my half of the garage. This is where I will be building my next guitar. I can get a dehumidifier and keep the humidity low but as soon as she gets home from work or has to leave, garage door open, and suddenly I am in a sauna again.


kicking her out of the garage is not an option... been there, tried that..... ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Humidity Control
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 11:56 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:02 am
Posts: 3272
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
First name: Barry
Last Name: Daniels
Ed, I am in the Houston area and have found that a de-humidifier is needed at certain times, along with the A/C in order to maintain 45%.

If you seal the garage floor with epoxy paint, it will help. Also, check gaps around the garage door. I have mine sealed with two strips of trim that includes a rubber flapper seal.


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 Post subject: Re: Humidity Control
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:04 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:10 pm
Posts: 121
First name: Brendan
Last Name: Dwyer
City: tolland
State: CT
Zip/Postal Code: 06084
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
i set up my dehumidifier to dump water into my condensate pump on my central air. two birds one stone. i've been told you can over work the pump and they will fail. well, they're like $30 and i've been doing it for 2 years with no prob.

tastes great, less filling (or less emptying...i dunno)

b

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 Post subject: Re: Humidity Control
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:45 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:41 pm
Posts: 10
Location: SoCal
First name: Dustin
Last Name: Ellis
City: Simi Valley
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 93063
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I have the exact opposite issue. I have a shop in my garage and my wife and daughters also like to come in and out through the garage, but where I live in Southern California the humidity hovers around 30% all summer and 50% in the winter. Fall and spring fall somewhere between those except on rainy days (which don't happen too often).

I have wondered about storing my work in a giant ziplock bag to try and counter the sudden effects of rapid humidity change when I not working on them.

Anyone thought of something like this?

Dustin Ellis


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 Post subject: Re: Humidity Control
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:04 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:41 pm
Posts: 10
Location: SoCal
First name: Dustin
Last Name: Ellis
City: Simi Valley
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 93063
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I have the exact opposite issue. I have a shop in my garage and my wife and daughters also like to come in and out through the garage, but where I live in Southern California the humidity hovers around 30% all summer and 50% in the winter. Fall and spring fall somewhere between those except on rainy days (which don't happen too often).

I have wondered about storing my work in a giant ziplock bag to try and counter the sudden effects of rapid humidity change when I not working on them.

Anyone thought of something like this?

Dustin Ellis


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 Post subject: Re: Humidity Control
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:53 am 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:10 pm
Posts: 121
First name: Brendan
Last Name: Dwyer
City: tolland
State: CT
Zip/Postal Code: 06084
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
do you have central AC? there are humidifier units that can be installed in the main supply trunk that might help.

b

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