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 Post subject: Re: Flamenco video
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 8:57 am 
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Koa
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Location: Bozeman, Montana
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Technically the braces are not parallel. They are inclined as usual it is just a very small amount. It is so close to parallel that it is hard to photograph.

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 Post subject: Re: Flamenco video
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 4:23 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:35 pm
Posts: 157
Location: Mequon, WI USA
First name: John
Last Name: Nowicki
City: Mequon
State: WI
Zip/Postal Code: 53092
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Alexandru Marian wrote:
jlneng wrote:
Hi Stephen,
I have recently played some fine spanish flamenco guitars that had no forward ramp, alot of relief planed in the fretboard/neck, and none sounded muy flamenco....................



So what was wrong about them? Too much doming? More important, was the rest of the construction true to the "old school" flamenco guitars? It seems many builders in Spain have moved on from the old sound (not for the better imo).


Hi Alexandru,
Some of the spanish made flamencos I played last week were good sounding guitars but not very flamenco. They lacked the rasp of an old school flamenco. I think alot of it had to do with the classical style neck & fretboard geometry. I also think many of the tops were braced too heavy. Not many overtones. I even got to play a 1923 Santos, and a 33 Santos. The best guitar from new stock was a 2008 Antonio Raya Ferrer flamenco that was exceptional and muy flamenco. If I would have had the cash, I would have bought it in a second. $5400... I was actually shopping for a student.
John

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 Post subject: Re: Flamenco video
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 4:26 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Posts: 157
Location: Mequon, WI USA
First name: John
Last Name: Nowicki
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State: WI
Zip/Postal Code: 53092
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
JohnAbercrombie wrote:
Stephen-
Thanks for the tune!
Interesting project!
Please post details as you work on this one, as I'm sure a lot of us would like to 'follow along'.

The Ferrer has wooden pegs. Are you going to use traditional wooden pegs, or the ones with 'hidden' gears inside? I guess the owner is accustomed to dealing with wooden tuning pegs.

Also, the Ferrer is cypress? What's the weight of the guitar? Are you going to use 'Alaskan cypress' aka yellow cedar , or try to source European cypress? (Is is available?)


What's the string height off the soundboard? Getting that 'low' was a challenge for me when I built my first 'flamenco-ish' guitar a while ago. Skinny bridge!

Cheers
John


Hi John,
I just played a new 2008 Antonio Raya Ferrer that had the tuners that looked like pegs. They worked very well. It was an exceptional guitar.
John

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 Post subject: Re: Flamenco video
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 4:38 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:35 pm
Posts: 157
Location: Mequon, WI USA
First name: John
Last Name: Nowicki
City: Mequon
State: WI
Zip/Postal Code: 53092
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Stephen Boone wrote:
Hey John I would love to see some photos of your set up make sure I am doing this right. I appreciate the help.


Let me know what you would like to see and I will take some photos. I do have a great method for setting the neck geometry in the solera. I use a plunge router and rout out 3mm from the 12th fret position to the nut end of the solera (the width of the neck at the widest point). This eliminated the need to plane the ramp as long as the 12th fret and the nut end are parellel. I never thought that someone could make a perfectly square & symmetric ramp by hand. This worked great for me. If you want to change the ramp in the future you can use shims (at the nut end) to reduce the ramp angle. I made my "neck channel" 4mm deep and have a 1.25mm shim on the neck end of the channel to give me 2.75mm which is what I build with now.
Anyway, let me know what you would like to see and I would be happy to take pics..
John

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 Post subject: Re: Flamenco video
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 5:36 pm 
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Koa
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Posts: 1505
Location: Lorette, Manitoba, Canada
First name: Douglas
Last Name: Ingram
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State: Manitoba
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Stephen,

Your playing is better than mine, don't apologize too much!

Progress looks good, but you realize that this is just getting in the way of an FE17 project, don't you?

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 Post subject: Re: Flamenco video
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:33 pm 
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Koa
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Hi Douglas, I do not apologize for my playing. I used to, but I am over it. I have been practicing that song for over ten years and that is as good as it gets for me. If you knew just how little playing talent I was born with you would be truly impressed with my playing.

I just got the down payment for the FE17 project and she understands that her build will begin when this one is done. In reality I hesitate to call it the FE17 project because it is not my intention to copy it per se. I will be using FE17 as a template however. The client REALLY enjoyed coming to the shop and picking through my zoot for her build. Her guitar will have a warm palette and I am excited to get going on it but I am also excited about this cut away flamenco. I have actually had to address some finishing issues on a different guitar that is due for pick up in two weeks so I have been slow on this build. I hope to make the rosette soon so I can drop it into the top.

I have a quote from a customer that I got today and it made me feel terrific.

Quote:
The guitar arrived yesterday afternoon. It is beautiful. I have been playing it all morning. It completely fulfills my expectations. The sound is what I was looking for and plays very easily. I have found that I become distracted by the beautiful sounds and lose my concentration. Thank you for your beautiful craftsmanship.



That right there is why we do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Flamenco video
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 8:52 am 
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Koa
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:55 am
Posts: 1505
Location: Lorette, Manitoba, Canada
First name: Douglas
Last Name: Ingram
City: Lorette
State: Manitoba
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Stephen Boone wrote:
Hi Douglas, I do not apologize for my playing. I used to, but I am over it. I have been practicing that song for over ten years and that is as good as it gets for me. If you knew just how little playing talent I was born with you would be truly impressed with my playing.


Ahhh... OK! I feel better!

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 Post subject: Re: Flamenco video
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:18 am 
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Koa
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Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:57 am
Posts: 544
Location: Auchtermuchty, Fife, Scotland
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
This is really interesting for those like me who are still relatively new to this... I did though go once to Granada, and its amazing for the guitar nut...there are makers shop everywhere, small tiny places wedged between stores and cafes - must have counted around 50 or so without really looking - often no bigger than 8' x 12' spaces for bench, wood store and tools - open to the pavements and roads... a really interesting place that I would reccommend to anyone, especially those interested in concert and flamenco guitars... will enjoy watching this thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Flamenco video
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 9:14 pm 
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Koa
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Location: Bozeman, Montana
Focus: Build
Here are some progress photos.

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 Post subject: Re: Flamenco video
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 5:05 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 am
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First name: colin
Last Name: north
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Hi Stephen,
just wanted to say I was very impressed with the rosette, understated, yet so elegant.

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Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.


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 Post subject: Re: Flamenco video
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 2:24 pm 
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Koa
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Location: Bozeman, Montana
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Thank you Colin for your comments about the rosette. It is still my favorite.

More photos

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I am making solid linings and I use the actual shape of the side at this point to make a drawing of the shape the lining needs to be and then I create a mould to shape the linings. The linings are a cold glue lamination.

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 Post subject: Re: Flamenco video
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 2:32 pm 
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Koa
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I have quite a few photos here.

I use a couple of my hold down clamps on the solera to hold the back in place while I mark where to cut away the linings for fitting.

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The top purfling is installed. I cut the channels with a laminate trimmer and the Stew-Mac jig. It is effective but pricey.

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 Post subject: Re: Flamenco video
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 2:38 pm 
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Koa
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Location: Bozeman, Montana
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I usually have the head stock veneer in place sooner but I have to do a small inlay on this one so I waited. I will do the inlay before I glue it on in case I mess up the inlay. Here is how I like to create my veneers for the head stock.

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 Post subject: Re: Flamenco video
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 2:39 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
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Location: Virginia
All I can say is, I wish I could play Flemenco that good :)


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 Post subject: Re: Flamenco video
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 3:17 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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What is the purpose of the lack of scallop at the end of the central fan brace and closing bars?

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 Post subject: Re: Flamenco video
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 3:21 pm 
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Koa
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Posts: 601
Location: Bozeman, Montana
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No purpose. It taps good the way it is. Live and let live I say.

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