Official Luthiers Forum!

So I bought this Washburn body off Ebay. No neck, but otherwise all there. I want to get a Martin-style neck w/dovetail joint to put on there; I'd rather not buy an additional bunch of tools from StewMac, like templates, etc.I probably won't use again. Where can I get info on how to cut a a dovetail mortise in a heel block the old-fashioned way? BTW, I have many years of woodworking experience (even got paid for it!) so I do have a good array of the usual tools - chisels, planes, etc.

My guess is that in the good old days, the dovetail in the body was cut before the top and back were glued on .. that way they could simply cut it with a back saw.

Mark it out and start hoggin it out ... drill out most of the waste, and then clean up the sides with a chisel .. will be tricky at the dovetail bottom ...

IMO ..use a bolt on ....

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Mmmm...I'm all for easy, but tend to be a bit of a Luddite sometimes. My gut tells me that a bolt-on, with or without tenon, would not be as stable and secure as a dovetail joint. Please tell me if/why my gut is wrong.

Chad -

Many of the top end builders (some on this forum) have shifted to a bolt on M&T joint. Take a look at Bill Cumpiano's website which has a very thorough discussion of the relative strengths of the M&T bolton. In short. he's using it and has concluded that it's very strong.

I also offer a vote for a bolt on M&T. I'm a relative novice - and struggle with getting the angle right on a dovetail - with a bolt on M&T neck you have multiple tries to adjust the neck angle (minor changes). After 4 guitars with dovetails, I've concluded, never again. It's a very challenging joint to get very tight when the precise angle is very important.

Charles Fox uses a butt joint bolt on and he's been building for over 40 years. I use it as well according to the way I was taught by him. If it's good enough for the jig master, it's good enough for me!

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Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

Definitely another vote for mortice and tenon neck joints.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

K.

Do you glue the joint, or just bolt it on dry?

Typically bolt-on's are dry joints. Here are a couple of takes on bolt-on's from Yamamoto and Taylor.

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Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

I had never imagined anyone did a bolted butt joint with no tenon. I just might try it on my current build.

Hi Chad and all,
To your original question on the 'how-to' dove tail, check out this link. Quite informative.
http://gicl.cs.drexel.edu/people/sevy/luthierie/guitarmaking_guide/dovetail_joint/dovetail_joint.html
Hope I've entered it all right.

I've muddled my way through a couple of these with just dovetail saw and chisels, so it's not as daunting as some think. I think everyone should try one.

As to a completely tennonless neck joint, I wonder how a newbie builder like myself would explain it to a potential future customer, paying a high end price? Perhaps I could make a case for 'good enough' - but superior?
Gerry

Ask Taylor, or Mario Proulx how they deal with these questions! (I'm sure the list of builders using bolts without tenons is quite long...)

I built a couple with tenons+ bolts, and a couple with dovetails - never again. It's bolt-on butt joint from now on.
If I wanted a non-bolt solution, I'd probably go for a loose tenon.

Cheers
John