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Well, after several Coco instruments, I've started to break out in a rash. Looks like it caught up with me. I used most all the precautions. So, other than EIR ( ) anyone have any recommendations for a rosewoody type look and sound that won't give you the hives? I do fine with BRW, but don't want to use my stash on a regular basis.

Have you tried Jacaranda?

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Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

Honduran rosewood....?

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

I think padauk can look a fair bit like cocobolo, and it is a true rosewood isn't it?

Padauk is a sort of cousin to rosewood but not a true rosewood. It's of the Botanical Classification Pterocarpus dalbergiodes and all true rosewoods are of the Botanical Classification Dalbergia. (IE Dalbergia Retusa = Cocobolo, Dalbergia Nigra = Brazillian Rosewood, etc. etc.) There are other woods called Rosewood that have many of the characteristics such as Bolivian Rosewood (Morado) etc. but they are not true rosewoods. Many are acceptable substitutes for Rosewood by some instrument and many furniture builders.

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Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

Thanks for the correction Bill, I just saw dalbergiodes and assumed it was a rosewood.

Hi Hans,

I just built a downdraft sanding area and bought a couple of $6 disposable "hazmat" type suits to deal with Cocobolo (after getting a pretty good rash.) Walnut and Cedar get to me too, but not nearly as bad. Dedicating one day to scraping and at least preliminary sanding, and maybe one more day for final sanding, that means a total of about $23 for the 2 hazmat suits (including shipping.)

For the downdraft table, holes were drilled through an area of shop countertop, a sloped box built beneath and connected with a blast gate to the dust suction, and an open enclosure (isn't that an oxymoron?) was built to sit on top and contain the dust left, back, right, and top (as well as make the suction more effective.)

Supposedly, you can also smear some anti-poison ivy stuff on your arms before you start, and that keeps the oils out of your pores - but my rash was bad enough that I decided to find a disposable hazmat suit (pants, tunic/shirt with hood, nitrile gloves, N95 mask - all for about $6.) For me, the minor dust of cutting was no bother, and bending had no effect, but when the fine dust started wafting, I got the rash. So, I figure I can still use Cocobolo - such a gorgeous, high density, ringing wood - and just plan to dedicate one to two (max) days as a 'boy in a bubble' to keep the dust off my skin.

To answer your question... you might try Granadillo (Platymiscum spp.) hard, dense, ringing, closed pores, floral smelling when cutting. Most of it is a relatively bland rose/burgundy, but some of it has some darker streaking. Katalox is hard to find well quartersawn and big enough, darker and less grain variety than Cocobolo, but is again dense, hard, and ringing. Some Bubinga could compare favorably with some Cocobolo. I'm building one in Osage Orange, chemically altered to black using high-tannin tea, followed by ferrous acetate (iron dissolved in vinegar.) The Osage Orange itself has little tannins, so if you were to artistically apply the tannin tea, symmetrically, heavier and lighter streaks, or maybe a full-on Jackson Pollock tantrum, you might be able to get some cool patterns...

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

Thanks guys! I thought I read somewhere that Honduran gave folks problems too. Maybe that was Bolivian...
Dennis, I've got a downdraft table, air scrubber, cyclone dust collector, but I might have to draw the line at getting suited up to build guitars. My rash is pretty much just on my neck, but I am starting to itch all over. I think I will stop using it for laminated bracing and go back to cutoffs of BRW or blackwood, maybe even walnut or ebony.

-

Honduran is one of my favorites too and not only for the glassy tap tone - I like the way it looks.









Honduran makes a BRWish sounding guitar, is available well quartered, works well and bends well, and the one strike against it is that it is not all that cheap anymore but then what is....

I like it!

Look into Palo Escrito.

Chuck

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"To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong"
- Joseph Chilton Pearce

Hesh : Two very nice guitars, I love Honduran but have only done a couple of guitars from it.One is having the finish put on and I'm waiting for the nitro to gas off a bit.It will sing in the next week or two.
Fillippo: I know that Padauk has dust that gets over every thing,but it has a very nice tap tone and makes a nice guitar. A bit hard to bend sometimes and you need a gallon of fill to close off the pores. If you can put up with it's shortcomings it's worth the effort.
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

Ot-oh #2 is going to be Padauk. I hope my piece isn't as bad as yours!

To my ears Honduran (Dalbergia stevensonii) is brighter than Braz, Coco, or EIRW. (I really like it though). I'd consider Dalbergia tucerensis, which is called Panama Rosewood, Amazon Rosewood, or even sometimes Honduran Rosewood to be a good Coco substitute. It's not as red as some Coco. It's easier to work with, and more stable.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

Haans... I have to agree with the Honduran folks. I get the sniffles and watery eyes from coco and even sniffles from macassar but not Honduran. I use this in my rosewood dreads.. for sound and comfort. You may have to search a little longer to find the really pretty cuts, but they are out there.

Let me know if you want to see if it gets you sniffly or into a rash... I'll send you a cut-off and you can rub it all over yourself.
chris

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Chris Oliver
Infinity Luthiers
...in the shop.

live every minute...

If you're allergic to Cocobolo, you're likely to be allergic to Morado (Bolivian Rosewood). Most tropical hardwoods -- dalbergias, morado, ziricote contain compounds known as dalbergiones, but in particular (R)-3,4-dimethoxydahlbergione. There is an (S) 4,4-dimethoxydahlbergione as well. You'll find it to some degree in East Indian rosewood as well, but not nearly as much as in cocobolo, zircote, and morado.

Jacaranda is just the portugese word to say "rosewood"

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Francis Richer, Montréal
Les Guitares F&M Guitars

In the past I've seen Jacaranda used for Brazilian Rosewood, but not so much since it has gotten so expensive. I see it used a lot now for Indian Rosewood, usually at a significant mark-up.

You are indeed correct. There is one variety of wood from some of the Pacific islands referred to as Jacaranda that as Alan said is used as a sub for BRW. There is another variety also marketed simply as Dalbergia. Then yet another in Brazil (also used as a BRW sub). Tulip Wood is sometimes referred to as Jacarandá Rosa. Genuine BRW (Dalbergia Nigra) is sometimes referred to as Jacarandá, Jacarandá De Brasil among many other names. In other cases Cocobolo is referred to as Jacarandáholz.

All that to say I should have been a bit more specific when referring to "Jacaranda". It was just one of those "drive by postings" I suppose.

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Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

Hi Hans,

Do you have an upper enclosure for the downdraft table? I know that down at the surface of the table there is great suction, but 5" away maybe it's not strong enough. Seems like somehow, the Cocobolo dust is becoming airborne.

Also, the full hazmat suit is probably overkill, as the main problem areas are arms and neck (when exposed), so maybe a long sleeve disposable shirt only would handle it. I know some people talk about wearing long sleeved regular shirts, but that could mean putting lots of Cocobolo dust in the washing machine, and I'm not so sure that's a great idea if the oils end up spreading to other clothes. I'm looking for paper alternatives to the plastic-y Tyvek-like typical disposable clothes.

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

Dennis,

I know Kimberly Clarke used to make paper disposable clothing though I haven't really looked into that for a number of years since I've been using the Tyvek suits. I buy the Tyvek to use specifically for spraying or when I'm processing a lot of Cocobolo. I think the paper would work perfectly for dust but not so sure about spray finishing. But then, that's in another topic.

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Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

Haans,

Nobody has mentioned D. Maritima or Bois de Rose. It is hard and heavy like Coco and Hounduran Rosewood and also has a lively tap tone. I have never actually built with it though. As far as wild figure goes not much comes close to Coco IMHO.

Tim

With my new downdraft sanding station (with an enclosure - open only in the front) I may not need the hazmat suit during sanding operations. I'm gun-shy to try bare-armed sanding Cocobolo right after going through a pretty nasty rash, but maybe I'll brave a test later. Now I need to make some sort of portable troji-lite that I can put over top of the downdraft area, for scraping bindings (that operation, of course, raises fine shavings from the rims as well as from the bindings themselves.)

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

I have a friend who has serious issues with Macassar Ebony - watch out for that one..!

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http://www.PeakeGuitars.com

Very nice Woody. How does the tone of this wood compare to the other rosewoods? Who carrys nice looking sets?

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......