Official Luthiers Forum!

since I missed out on the Woodzone Rikon 10-345 sale at $899 I'm totally kicking myself. I've set aside 2k to purchase a good bandsaw and a drum sander. Right now to get the most band for my buck I've been leaning towards the Rikon and Grizzly 14" - 17" bandsaws and either the Performax 10-20 or 16-32 drum sander. I am limited in my shop to single phase electric, so that's ruled out a couple of the choices I was originally looking at. Thoughts, comments, recommendations and most of all HELP!

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Bobby Masten

Buy a 26" drum sander from Woodmaster in KC... made in America... 5HP, 220V, 23 amp.. You can do contract work while you build your complete shop and it will never fail. You'll have to negotiate to get it for $2k but is possible. Use a coping saw instead of a band saw until you can afford a good one.

Good luck on you decision.

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Chris Oliver
Infinity Luthiers
...in the shop.

live every minute...

My recommendation is to raise your budget another $500 and get a Jet/Performax 22-44 and the Grizzly 17 Extreme. (No experience with Rikon).

If you're starting with typical .150" wood and trying to get it to working thickness, it's worth it to have the 22" sander so you can run pieces across the grain when you are trying to take off a lot of meat. It's particularly worth it if you're using a lot of resinous/oily wood. You'll save a lot of time and a lot of paper.

Good luck.

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http://www.chassonguitars.com

I have the Jet 16/32 sander and a Grizzly G0555 bandsaw. I love them both. I upgraded the bandsaw with the 6" extension block and a nice resaw fence. As long as you spend a lot of time setting up the bandsaw, it will cut great. I have never had any issues with it and have done a good amount of resawing. And you can get all of this for under $2000. Good luck with the tool search.

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ELEVATE || Next Level Lutherie
http://elevatelutherie.com
&
http://ensorguitars.com

It's a heck of a good time to go used. You should have no problem getting both for under 2K.

I like my Rikon 14" and my Performax 10-20 has been a great machine and served me well. That combo could save you enough cash for both machines and some killer tonewood.

I would also recommend the Performax (or Jet) 10-20 sander as being perfectly satisfactory for an amateur shop. I'm very happy with mine. A bigger sander would be great but I just don't have the space.

I've heard mostly good reports on the Rikon 14" and that's the one I plan to replace my Grizzly 14" with, hopefully sometime this summer. My Grizzly 14" has the riser block and does an ok job: I can resaw backs and sides but it is slow and the saw must be carefully setup.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I think it would be easier if we new what you would be using the machines for. only guitarbuilding and or also resawing etc.

again - I would say it depends on what you will be using it for. For guitarbuilding the bandsaw is the 1 of 3 machines most used (in my shop) the others are drillpress and drumsander, drumsander is the most used I guess. ( of the powermachines.) absolutely most used are my Hands haha.

Lars

I think it depends on what you'll be using the bandsaw for. If you're planning on doing any resawing (which is mighty useful if you have a good lumberyard nearby, and plan on cutting your own back and side sets from maple, black walnut, cherry or whatever). You can save a ton of money if that's your thing. If that's the case, then I recommend spending the money on the bandsaw. I've got the Grizzly 17" Extreme, and I'm very happy with it.

If you never see doing any resawing, then the smaller bandsaws are fine.

I also have the Jet/Performax 10/20 and am very happy with it. Not wide enough to thickness tops and backs once they're alread joined, which is a bit of an inconvenience, but it's an affordable drum sander which does the job for me. Frankly it's indispensible.

My actual budget is slightly higher than the 2k so this setup fits. (plus a little extra money for the heating blankets from John @ Bluescreek to get away from light bulbs!) Those are the exact 2 bandsaws from Grizzly I've been considering based on my needs. From everything I've read it seems the only major difference between the two is the 2" extra resaw height on the 17" and the under cabinet storage on the 14". Can anyone give me any feedback on the comparable Rikon models and maybe some info on why you'd pick one of the above named Grizzly's over the other one? Thanks everyone for the replies so far!

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Bobby Masten

The Rikon 14" deluxe is an excellent tool, especially for the money, and of much better quality and build than anything I've seen from Grizzly. It's enough to resaw anything used in guitar building.
The 10-20 is a great little machine, and apparently less fussy to adjust than the larger open drum sanders. It's also very precise when well set-up and with the right paper. If I adjust mine twice a year, that's it. Doing 2 passes for a joined plate can be a drag, but personally I got used to it.
I didn't see you mention a dust collector, a shop-vac will function for a while with the 10-20, but anything bigger and the bandsaw/resaw will require more serious dust collection, minimum a 1HP 650CFM machine.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

I run mine through the 10-20 to final thickness after I have joined them so I'm not sure I get this statement? I set it up so the roller at the open end is few thousandths higher then the other end and it works quite well. I wouldn't want it if I couldn't thickness the tops and backs after they're joined.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

In no way does single phase limit you. Most tools used by folks like us are single phase. I wonder if you meant 120 vs 240 volts? Still, that is not a problem in most homes (if any) since its simply a combination of the two buss bars in your panel to get 240. Some motors over 3hp require 240. Many motors under 3hp can switch between 120 and 240. It all depends on the current draw. A 2K budget should get you an good bandsaw and a good sander
Mike

http://cgi.ebay.com/Performax-629004K-1 ... 439bac480c

I have had the Griz GO555 since 02 and still going strong. I have the Griz (don't know number) 18" so guess it is an 18-36 drum sander. Not a problem with it (well except the intitial set up) but since no problems. If just doing this stuff plenty big. Has sort of self contained dust collection. It blows the the dust into bag and does ok, as it has enough to fully inflate a large DC bag. That said I have it hooked to small DC and works great. Some of it depends on space, what doing. If had it over might get bigger bandsaw for some better resaw, but as is, do very little of that so not a problem.

You mean this one? http://www.grizzly.com/products/18-1-1- ... nder/G0458

Do you really like it? I sure do like that price! I also like the DC port being on the end. Add this: http://www.grizzly.com/products/19-3-HP ... saw/G0514X and you are in carbide blade land and in just a bit over budget (shipping). All single phase.

How does the table move up and down? What is the movement mechanism?

Mike

I looked at that Grizzly drum sander and called their technical department this morning to ask some questions. It's rated for 1/8" minimum thickness, so I asked what is the problem with going down to .090-.075 and their rep said the conveyer would flex too much below the 1/8" and give you divots etc. I guess you could get around that by using a backer board, but I'm not sure I want to go to that much trouble. Anyone else use this and have feedback?

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Bobby Masten

I guess the Grizz Prez does NOT use that sander to make his guitars. Just keep your eyes open for deals on the performax sanders. They do come up from time to time. BTW, Harbor Freight offered a drum sander last year... never heard anymore about it. You prolly have to go to their store and look at the in-store catalog.

Mike

Upgrade to ceramic guides if you can . They are excellent for resaw work. Setting up a band saw is most important . I have 2 band saws, one Grizzly extreem 19 for resaw and a walker turner 16 for everything else. the walker turner is worth the wait,

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Ok, so what do ceramic guides give you? Why are they better than roller guides? Do I replace both upper and lower? What about thrust bearings?

I picked up a Grizzly 555 Extreme new, and a Performax 16-32 off craigslist for $500. I would like the riser kit, but I'm building ukes, so it's not absolutely necessary. The 555 extreme is very sturdy, has one of the largest motor in its class, resaws great for my needs. I see the Rikon offers more resaw height out of the box, though. The grizzly offers a lot of saw for the money, nonetheless.

I found the Jet 22-44 Drum Sander on fleabay for $1,265.00 delivered and no tax, leaning that way.

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Bobby Masten

Mike The Griz open end 18" works just like the other brands and raises and lowers by wheel. As runs can adjust belt speed etc. Abrasive style conveyor belt. I have used the other brands of same type at other shops and this is works as good as any of them period. DC is fine as is, but better with a normal dc but one of the portable great.

I consistently sand down to .080 to .060 for binding, head plates etc,and thinner for perf and never a problem. I don't but probably should use a backer.

Now is it as good as a good dual drum closed sander no. Would knowing what know now having used this and Delta and Jet and other brands in same class I would do the same. Works as well in every respect and new less than the other brands used. To me the other brands are selling just that brand name. This is not one of those spend a dollar to save a dime things. Now as far as the 24" closed, I wouldn't get another one from Griz until they if they do change the way one changes abrasive. Worked as well as others for sanding, but changing sand paper was a pain, literally

Hi Bobby,

If you can wait a little ,you can get a great deal-

I recently sold my Performax 22-44 in great condition for $500. on ebay,
because I bought a Grizzly 18" wide belt for $1800. in virtually unused condition.

I have bought and sold several older Delta 14" band saws for around $500..
Personally I feel these are a much better saw than what's on the market today.

The only downside is that you have to travel to pick up the tool.

Brad

Good pickup on the widebelt Brad. If had the area, way I would go.

So without the backer board, are you noticing any inconsistencies in your sanding? The price is right for this sander, I just don't want to have issues with it later

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Bobby Masten