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Hi everybody,

I have some questions that I'm hoping the forum can help me with. I'm in the midst of my first build with quilted mahogany, which is thought to be hard to bend. So, I read up on methods here and ordered up some SS2. My process was as follows, spray both sides of each side with SS2, wrap in craft paper held with rubber bands and set aside to dry for three days. On day four, I unwrapped the sides, at which time this red staining was very apparant, the craft paper had stain marks on some spots matching the patterns on the wood as well. The bending process was pretty standard, spritz both sides with water, put in the bending machine between two spring steel sheets, heating blanket on top, and bend away. The sides bent very nicely, no faceting, cupping or cracks. After coming out of the bender, the staining is still very noticible, although now there are some additional patterns caused by the water used in the bending process. staing is on both sides equally. I tested the SS2 on several scraps and cut offs, and it appears to cause pigment to be released from most kinds of wood. I tested three different batches of mahogany, some rosewood and some black walnut. Wiping a paper towel across wood sprayed immediately shows very obvious wood colored liquid. Is it common for tonewood to have some kind of dye in it?

So, is this SOP for SS2? Did I do something wrong? And most importantly, what is the easiest cleanup method? Sanding both sides isn't really feasible at this point, so I'm hoping somebody has a better idea. The sides look like crap now.

Thanks in advance for any light you can shed.


Chris.

I set mine up on end so they'll drain when I spray them. Any staining I've had was pretty easy to sand out.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Thanks Steve,

But you have seen this sort of thing with SS2?

Chris-
I've had some stained sides but not quite as dramatic as yours.
Wood is pretty tough stuff- even thinned sides.
If it were my project, I wouldn't be afraid to give them a good scrub with soap/water and a ScotchBrite pad for a start. rinse, dry with a towel and then clamp them lightly back into the form to dry - or anything that will keep their shape.
A wipe with alcohol would be another fairly 'safe' thing I'd try.
My guess is that it won't take much sanding to even out the color, anyway.
Of course, try your 'treatments' on a section that will be cut off, or on the inside surface, before 'going at' the outside.

Cheers
John

Chris, sorry for the confusion. That's what I was talking about - spraying them with SS2. I use a spray bottle and just spray the wood and lean it up against something so it can drain and air dry. I don't wrap it in anything. I do put some of that freezer paper with plastic coating on one side under and behind because I also get some coloring that bleeds out, especially on ebony. I have not seen near as much staining as you have there. I wonder if it might be caused by wrapping the sides in paper before they are dry?

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Thanks guys,

You can bet I'll be careful with SS2 in the future. I've done some experiments with different cleaning agents on these pieces, seems like alcohol works the best. Scrubbed it with a sponge, let sit. Doesn't take it all out, but a good amount. I may try the soap and water too.

Any other thoughts from anybody would be great. I'm surprised not to see more mention of this issue here in posts about SS2.

Chris.

I got pretty similar staining with Sapele. Mine was only stained on the very surface (took very minimal sanding to remove).

_________________
Evan McCartney

I've used SS2 for years with no permanent staining after light sanding. There always seems to be some slight discoloration on lighter woods but is present only at the surface.

But...I only leave it on for 24 hrs...it always has worked with a multitude of species at that resident time. Is it possible that the additional time soaked deeper?

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Mine seems to not be too deep either, Evan. JJ, beats me, maybe the extra time had something to do with it, although my very casual testing this afternoon seems to indicate that the SS2 with color added is generated immediately upon application. Soap and water seem to take most of it off without much trouble, so do several other cleaning agents. I just have to try to figure out which might do the least damage. I don't want to sand very much because these sides are already pretty thin. I will say though, that so far it seems like even sanding with several grades of paper isn't going to return the wood to the original color. Although the difference may be invisible under finish.

Thanks again, everybody.

With Supersoft, I always see color bleeding. The heavier streaking stains sand off easily. However there is usually an overall slight darkening of the sides, possibly due to the darker colors bleeding throughout the lighter colored areas, or possibly due to the heat on the SS2 saturated wood. I have experimented with spraying the SS2 on the back pieces to keep the tones more even, though the effect is not as pronounced without the heat, I think. Waiting until the 4th day seems contrary to the SS2 instructions. Even the most difficult wood has responded well for me after 24 hours.

If you are concerned about the thinness of your sides, I suggest sanding the insides only where they will be visible through the soundhole. Leave the outside sanding until the normal leveling process before and after binding.

I hang my sides and binding after spraying and get a puddle of wood colored SS2 under them, it takes a lot of black out of ebony bindings but they are fine after bending. The only side set I have used it on so far was figured Bubinga and though it dripped color there was no staining issue on the sides but the craft paper was quite discolored. The glycol in the SS must be a good solvent for wood oils.

Fred

_________________
Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

Thanks everyone for the replies. I've managed to clean a fair amount of the staining off with a sponge and som alcolhol. I've also done some testing, looks to me like, spray, hang, don't wrap, may be the hot ticket. Pieces done that way just show a small amount of darkening, and no blotchy staining as my sides have.

Learn something everyday in this business.

Chris.

I actually have not seen as much staining as your pic shows. I use a very light SS2 spritz on both sides and let it hang for no more than 24 hours. I wrap the side in craft paper and LIGHTLY spritz the paper with distilled water...or not with some woods like Mahogany and Sapele.

The staining you show is significantly more than I see in my experience. Nonetheless, the little staining I have ever gotten was erased when I do my normal 220 grit sanding prior to gluing on the kerfed liners. I use this product all the time and am sold on its positive effect on results.

I hope this helps.

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Thanks JJ, it's very possible I used too much SS2. My first time and all. I think it'll all work out fine, the pieces look much better now than they did in the above photo. Seems like time also causes some of the staining to fade. I will keep using SS2, these quilted sides bent very well. I had no luck bending a set without SS2.

Chris.