Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi I'm Brendan. I'm new here. I'm about to start final sanding in preparation of finishing my first guitar. It's modeled after the D28. I've had some minor and major hiccups along the way. Some shop rash here and there, and the binding was a near disaster. I had to do a lot of touch up, fitting small pieces of wood in to gaps, filling, stuff like that. But i've learned SO much.

The biggest lesson i've learned so far is this (and it comes in the form of a story):

I was cruising along, doing great. All the major components were coming together nicely. Some minor issues along the way, but everything was looking good. Then i routed for the binding. I made a bit of a mess of it. This was my first attempt on a guitar, and my technique sucked. So the ledge was uneven, i had some tear out, and i was quite disappointed. I actually left the guitar in the shop collecting dust for a month. I just couldn't wrap my head around how to make it look decent. Then i came to the decision that i had only 2 options. 1. throw it in the fire and be done with this hobby that i've come to LOVE 2. Get some tunnel vision, sit down and solve the problems. So i chose #2. I spent HOURS fitting tiny slivers of wood into gaps, lining up grain on patches, filling and packing with sawdust, sanding, scraping, etc. And while i can't say that it is perfect, it's going to play.

If i hadn't just made the decision that perfection is not something i can achieve on THIS guitar, i would have quit. I'm so glad i didn't.

I'm looking forward to #2, building the williams jig, and attempting to get a little closer to "perfection" whatever that is.

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brendan 3.0 new and improved, with better interpersonal subroutines

Hi Brenden,

Welcome

Your experience mirrors that of many in one area of guitar construction or another. The first is a challenge and I think its just important to get it done as best you can and learn all of the lessons that go with it. Good on you for persevering!

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Binding is the most nerve wracking part of building a guitar, even after 7 builds and aquiring a good binding cutting machine I am still very nervous when routing for the binding.

Welcome to the OLF

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

Hi

You are not alone! for me who did not come from any woodworking background, I knew that there would be cosmetic problems associated with the learning process of developing the new skills necessary... so for my first and subsequent builds I made a decision: As long as it plays OK and sounds good, I can live with the cosmetic flaws... and I would say I still feel like that about the first.... thing is, tone came out pretty good, and when I finally sort the nut out, playing should be fine too... but since then, i do notice the problems... and so the second was abandoned when it became clear that I would not be able to live with the cosmetic flaws - thankfully it was stripped down and salvaged and will become a tenor, and is being build alongside another... What I have decided now is to take MORE TIME - after the relative success of the first instrument, that was built with patience, there was in hindsight this feeling taht the second would be quicker an better just because it was teh second... so big lesson learned... All good fun though.

Welcome, and congratulations!!

I've had the same experience (more than once... ). I think that's what makes the finished product so gratifying.

On the binding, I've had the same issues. I understand (although have yet to successfully execute) that the key to binding without tearout, or chunks, is to take repeated shallow cuts, and alter the direction of the cut based on the orientation of the grain - Stewmac has a good explanation here - http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Speci ... ns#details

Hello to you too!

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http://www.booneguitars.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stephen-Boone-guitar-builder/488208541257210

Glad to meet ya.

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Say what you do, Do what you say.

Brendan: Good for you. Anyone can become an expert at quitting,but it takes a bit of character in your personality to press on through the rough times. Things will work out and this guitar may surprise you. Good looks and good tone do not always coincide. Best of luck.
Tom

hey thanks everyone for the kind words!

Frank, that's some good advice. As i look ahead to the second one, i guess i feel the way you describe. That it will be better JUST because it's the second.
I will definitely watch out for that and make dang sure that every cut is the way i want it. I thought i was, but the flaws sort of pile up

But it's such a rewarding and therapeutic hobby for me. i just love being in my shop!

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brendan 3.0 new and improved, with better interpersonal subroutines

Hi, welcome to the madhouse.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Welcome brenbrenCT

Regarding perfection and Luthier skills eh, well me ain't gotts non of them.

Tried to order them from Stew Mac and LMI but they don't stock them
Tried to score a luthiers brush to ummm, you know ...brush up on my skills but the paint stores don't sell em.
Even talked to buddy down at the bikers bar, see if me coulds cop some under the table kind deal...no luck.
So me gave up and just build em the way me see them.
PP's off some of the "Official Luthiers" who think we should all be just like them.
But hey dis my life.

You reading these words n getting what me layin down here brenbren?

Just do it dude and has fun doin it.

Perfection??? Luthiers skills??? Ya right.


blessings

Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Welcome!

Everytime I made a mistake that had me on the edge of chucking the thing across the room, I collected myself and remembered my anger management and took a deep breath. I asked myself if this was something that could be fixed? Can it be fixed to look like I wanted it to be? Can I fix it so that it will play? Can I change the design to remove the damage?

I tried to see the mistakes as an opportunity to learn to repair. The top split, the linings had to be removed, the binding ledge took a big wowee detour, the bridge lifted, locating staples for the fretboard were in a spot that showed when I carved the neck.

There were lots and lots of mistakes and each one of them I tried to learn from. Kinda like life in that regard.

Darrin

Hey Brendan,

welcome to the club.

Welcome Brendan!
Seems you have had the honor of being roasted by our very own Padma, must be good karma or something.



Ed

Padma makes a good point... eventually.

If you love it keep doing it. I am still slowly getting done my 2nd and 3rd, and am planning on building much more.

and i would not worry about perfection. im finding the more mistakes you make now the more you learn for future builds.

! he just repackaged my point with kooky dialect

Anyway, i've learned there's no such thing as perfection in any facet of life, just practice.

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brendan 3.0 new and improved, with better interpersonal subroutines

If you didn't make mistakes you would never learn how to repair them, each guitar, the mistakes seem to be fewer and the repairs are quicker and easier. I have learned a whole lot from reading about other peoples mistakes on this forum, it is a lot easier to avoid things happening when you know that they have happened to others.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

Hi Brendan,

Welcome to the fun house!

It's not unusual to get off to a good start with binding problems. I had a doozy, and I even had my teacher to help!

My second steel string guitar was built under the tutelage of Frank Finnochio, during his one week residential guitar course.
We were cruising along, and had the box on one of Frank's OM-derived but slightly more curvy Prima's closed up, and it was time to rout for bindings. Frank hands me a trim router with a bit already in, saying something like "this is already set up for the standard binding strip size. After some guidance about rotating the base to keep the bearing at right angles to the body, off we go. About an inch or two around from the widest part of the lower bout, we discover ...

The router has a roundover bit installed!

WHOOPPSSSS!!!!!!

After about 10 seconds, with Frank suggesting that unbound, roundover edges aren't such a bad look, we go about learning how to fix such a travesty. A little cutting in with a straight bit, a little shaping of an off-cut from the back set, a little relief that this was EIR rather than some super fancy set of maple, and we have a patch inlayed and ready to move on. In the end, the patch was perfect (I can't always find it myself, so I challenge you to), the relief was total, and we moved on to other things, like getting a really true fingerboard.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't some sort of diss of Frank's course - I learned an immense amount of stuff from the course and would gladly do it again if I were at that level of learning. Dollars more than well spent. I guess my point is that the accidents happen, you fix them and move on - never even think or worry otherwise. I've had one instance since then when I've had the back off a classical guitar within one day of gluing it on, because the set of the neck wasn't right.

Jim

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

Brendan,
Welcome to the OLF. This is the place to be if you are looking for guidance. There is a lot of talent available on this forum. Anyway, you did the right thing. You fixed it! Mistakes are going to happen. The sign of a good woodworker is not how skilled he is at building, but how good he is at fixing mistakes. Each build will get better and the mistakes will be few and far between. Just go slow and think about each step. There are a lot of folks on this forum that did not have a background in woodworking.
Let us know how your build goes, and post some pics when you are done with it. There are also some great videos on the forum that show you how to do some of the difficult tasks. You'll do just fine.
Mike R.

VERY true about the rewards...and the therapy! Strangely given my day job its such a destressing hobby (despite the cussing when things go wrong! )

It was a very strange feeling stringing up the first - took me almost a year and a half, just a couple of hours a week, so a lot of time invested, yet you dont know what to expect and when you realise that tonally, because of teh quality pof materials and the attention to the top you have built a darn good sounding instrument, I just wished I had had teh skills from a wookworking perspective to have made it cosmetically perfect - so you get straight into number two, and in my case rushed it ...forgetting all teh good things I had learned from teh first, that in itself was probably the best lesson! (if frustrating) - Ironically, and probably against all the advice the good advice of the pros and experienced amateurs, I choose some rather expensive and rare woods for number 3 - simply because it has made me hold back, think more, practice various bits and pieces with scraps before going for it and SLOWING DOWN.... hopefully it will turn out far better as a result!

... the only downside with this darn hobby is that you develop this strange disease and start accumulating exotic woods at a rate that far out stretches your build rate! Even when you think you have enough for 10 years something so darn pretty tempts you...

Great stuff though

I had a success last night!

I have been avoiding the headstock logo inlay for quite awhile. Ever since the Great Binding Mishap of 2009, i've been hesitant to take a router or a dremel to ANY part of my guitar.

So i did two practice runs inlaying my logo into a scrap piece of walnut. I went with this:


My headstock veneer is bookmatched rosewood slats over the sapele neck. I inlaid the symbol in english sycamore (matches my purfling).

It went great! all the lines are crisp and well defined, and it scraped down beautifully!

So minor success for 'ol bren bren!

I'll post pictures at some point.

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brendan 3.0 new and improved, with better interpersonal subroutines

Welcome to the OLF. Great to see another face from CT here. Shoot me a PM if I can help with anything.

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Rob

hey thanks Rob. I will take you up on that is something comes up!

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brendan 3.0 new and improved, with better interpersonal subroutines