Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Fri Aug 08, 2025 5:37 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:11 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:01 am
Posts: 1399
Location: Houston, TX
First name: Chuck
Last Name: Hutchison
City: Houston
State: Texas
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I was watching Dan Erlewine's DVD on Acoustic Guitar Setup. He advises to put CA glues around all the bridge pin holes and let it soak in on the bridge plate only to harden the area against the string balls. Sounds like good advise but I was wondering if this would affect the sound in any way. I'm not looking for or mean to dis Dan, but just wondering if messing with the bare wood of the bridge plate is a good idea.

What's your take on it?

_________________
"After forty-nine years of violin building, I have decided that the search for a varnish is similar to the fox hunt. The fun is in the hunt."
Jack Batts Maker and Repairer of Fine Violins


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:54 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:45 pm
Posts: 4337
Location: United States
Chuck, I've always thought that was a good idea.
Very minimal weight, extra toughness, increased longevity.
I can't imagine any drag on tone from this simple operation.

Now have I done this yet...... no

Just haven't gotten a round tuit.

Steve

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:15 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:57 pm
Posts: 775
Location: Powell River BC Canada
First name: Daniel
Last Name: Minard
City: Powell River
State: BC
Country: Canada
If you used thin CA & it wicked into the top, it might make bridge removal pretty much impossible. If you used med viscosity & carefully wiped it in with a Q-tip, it might not be an issue.
Just a thought...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:49 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 13651
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Chucky bro I have not seen Dan's video so I have some questions for you.

Clearly the problem that he is addressing is string ball wear on the pin edges of the pin holes on the bridge plate - correct?

In his video is he using slotted or unslotted pins and slotting the bridge, top, and plate instead? It seems to me that if the problem being addressed is plate wear caused by string ball ends the better approach would be unslotted pins and subsequently slotting the bridge/top/plate instead.

Also how is Dan applying the CA and is it thin or medium CA? As mentioned by Dan M. any CA that is going to wick well (such as thin CA) is also going to wick well where we don't want it and that is between the bridge and top which would make future bridge removals more difficult and not leave any tell-tale of CA use for future repair people to see and react to.

I am also wondering if he places something on the back of the guitar to catch drips.

If my memory serves me right there was once a thread on the OLF where Howard I believe talked about using something, shellac or CA - can't remember.... to seal the tuner holes on the insides. Different reason but in this case also IIRC the CA or shellac was applied with a Q-tip.

Very interesting.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:24 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:01 am
Posts: 1399
Location: Houston, TX
First name: Chuck
Last Name: Hutchison
City: Houston
State: Texas
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hesh wrote:
Chucky bro I have not seen Dan's video so I have some questions for you.

Clearly the problem that he is addressing is string ball wear on the pin edges of the pin holes on the bridge plate - correct? You are correct in your assumption Sir !!

In his video is he using slotted or unslotted pins and slotting the bridge, top, and plate instead? Using slotted pins, he does go on to show how he slots and ramps the bridge only, but not inside where the spruce top and bridge plate are. It seems to me that if the problem being addressed is plate wear caused by string ball ends the better approach would be unslotted pins and subsequently slotting the bridge/top/plate instead. I'm tracking with you, but this is not what is does.

Also how is Dan applying the CA and is it thin or medium CA? He is using thin CA that he pours in a small plastic mixing cup and using his left hand brings it inside the sound hole and under the bridge as his right hand is holding a Qtip he pushes one end down thru the hole and into the mixing cup of CA. Then pulls the Qtip up against just touching the bridge plate to soak just the ring of the bottom where the string balls sit, he doesn't put the Qtip up thru the hole. He then removes the mixing cup out of the sound hole and brings the clean end of the Qtip down thru the hole to move on to the next. He then pushes the clean end of the Qtip up thru the next hole and puts the mixing cup of CA back in the sound hole and repeats for each string, blah, blah, blah. . . etc, etc, etc !!! As mentioned by Dan M. any CA that is going to wick well (such as thin CA) is also going to wick well where we don't want it and that is between the bridge and top which would make future bridge removals more difficult and not leave any tell-tale of CA use for future repair people to see and react to. Good point, that would or could be a problem for future repair personnel

I am also wondering if he places something on the back of the guitar to catch drips. He does indeed Hesh ole buddy, he layers down a couple sheets of Scott Towels inside on the back to catch wayfaring drips and drops that might go astray.

If my memory serves me right there was once a thread on the OLF where Howard I believe talked about using something, shellac or CA - can't remember.... to seal the tuner holes on the insides. Different reason but in this case also IIRC the CA or shellac was applied with a Q-tip.

Very interesting.


Very interesting indeed. Just wondering if it could affect the sound since the bridge plate is now harder.

"The time has come," the Walrus said,
"To talk of many things:
Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax--
Of cabbages--and kings--
And why the sea is boiling hot--
And why your bridges don't have wings."

_________________
"After forty-nine years of violin building, I have decided that the search for a varnish is similar to the fox hunt. The fun is in the hunt."
Jack Batts Maker and Repairer of Fine Violins


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:54 pm 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 13651
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Thanks Chuck for that very detailed explanation!

I know Dan so maybe I should ask him his thoughts on using non-slotted pins instead which I still think would be a better practice than having to beef up the holes in the plate because the string balls will be riding on the edges because of the slotted pins.

As for your question on any impact on tone I can't know but my guess would be no..... The CA is not adding any mass and only hardening the holes so I don't see how this would do anything to the tone but again I have no experience with this method.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:17 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:51 am
Posts: 1310
Location: Michigan,U.S.A.
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
I have some plates that are sealed with titebond.I've also used it to prevent cracking on endgrain of boards.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:30 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:01 am
Posts: 1399
Location: Houston, TX
First name: Chuck
Last Name: Hutchison
City: Houston
State: Texas
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Thanks everyone for your replies. I think I will experiment on my experimental Alvarez.

Hesh, you think you could get Dan to sign a few of my books for me? Anyway, he was working on a Seagull guitar in the DVD and just showing one way to fix a problem when your bridge plate starts getting all chewed up by not seating the balls against the plate. One other issue we must keep in mind is that Dan works for the R&D department for Stewart-McDonald and these videos are somewhat of a marketing ploy to buy their tools. One of the tools which Dan was explaining was the Bridge Pin Slotter which of course they sell. I don't mind tho, cause he is a genius when it comes to figuring out repairs and fixing guitars.

_________________
"After forty-nine years of violin building, I have decided that the search for a varnish is similar to the fox hunt. The fun is in the hunt."
Jack Batts Maker and Repairer of Fine Violins


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:52 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:32 am
Posts: 2687
Location: Ithaca, New York, United States
I've never applied CA to the bridge plate of an existing guitar, but I do "paint" the bridge plates on guitars I make with CA, before I glue the plate on the top. I don't believe it affects sound.

_________________
Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:39 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:31 pm
Posts: 1877
First name: Darryl
Last Name: Young
State: AR
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
This will probably add nothing to this thread but I'll mention it anyhow.

Burning the wood hardens it. I've read where oldtimers used to burn the inside of wagon wheels that rotates on the axle so it would wear longer. Now this is not burning till it turns to charcoal <grin>, but heating till it discolors. Not sure how practicle this is. Maybe you could place a short rod in the end of a soldering iron or something (and taper the end if needed) and get a similar affect.

Just tossing the idea out.......

_________________
Formerly known as Adaboy.......


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: dofthesea and 45 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com