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Considering adding a dust collector to my shop and letting the Festool vac be just that going forward.

I understand the benefits of micron level filtration and as such I'm thinking that I need a unit that is efficient in filtering dust down to the 1 micron level. I'm also not interested in a massive unit that is permanently plumbed into and around my shop. Considering how much I use my power tools wheeling up and direct connecting a smaller unit is not a problem for me. If I don't direct connect I am planning anyway on having the dust collector in the saw room and using ports that I will install on the dividing wall to plug in my main shop tools to the DC.

Woodcraft has a 10% off sale starting tomorrow that my Woodcraft says includes anything, except "*" items even if they have to order it.

The JDS unit looks good to me and I am wondering if 1) anyone has any experience with this unit which will be $369 less 10% and b) if not experienced with the JDS or you like something else better what would you get that is portable, 1,100 CFM or better, not over 1.5HP (not looking to draw more than 15 amps), well made, and not a science project to get up and running?

Thanks!

Hesh, I have the equivalent of a Jet DC650 (1HP) I picked up on Craig's list for a song. It is more than enough for the Performax 10/20 and my other tools (table saw, jointer, belt sander, buffer). I did install 4" hoses and blast gates over the shop so I do not have to connect/disconnect all the time, which I did for a while and was aggravating.
Also I wired the dust collector in 220v and run it on a separate 40 amp breaker. If you can't do that, I recommend running whatever machine on one circuit and the dust collector on another.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Hesh, good buddy,
If I remember right you are using a clear vue cyclone with your shop vac. I'm using the same setup and I'm getting ready to get my saws out of the garage and put them in my basement shop. So I will be generating more dust. I don't have a thickness sander but plan on adding one in the near future.

Am I being foolish to think I can manage the dust from the new machines with a clear vue cyclone?

By the way I'm no where near as neat as you. I just close the door and tell the wife to keep out

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Say what you do, Do what you say.

Does that work?

Seriously thanks Dave and Laurent!

Dave I just have a Festool vac with no cyclone so I need to change the $4-5 bags more frequently.... But now with a nicer/bigger saw and the realization that my Performax 10-20 will eat less paper with better DC I'm thinking it's time to get a decent DC.

Besides stuff is on sale.....

Laurent thanks for that - Good anticipation of the other issue too which is running the DC on a separate circuit from my power tools. When I built my shop I added 2 20A circuits one on each of the two long sides of the shop. My lights overhead are on a separate circuit so when I hurt myself I can still see....

To cut to the chase here you mentioned that you did plumb in the DC so am I going to want to do this too and is my thinking that I can just wheel the thing around unrealistic?

TIA

Thanks Filippo - much appreciated and you and another OLFer who PMed me convinced me to get the canister. I'm an easy sell on the virtues of better filtration....

I'm not seeing the canister version on Woodcraft's site however so I'll call them up and use the link that you provided (thanks again) for the model number.

Question: It's pictured with the 6" adapted for two 4" ports. If I am only hooking it up to one device at a time what do you do with the ports? Put a gate on one of the 4" or replace the splitter with a 6 to 4 adapter?

TIA

Hesh I will say this relevant to not know what you have or don't have in shop and what I have in my shop. I have Griz DC and first had bag . My problem which you probably don't have is foot print. Right now don't have to pull the thing to get to tools, but have that stupid hose to move around to trip over. I am thinking of plumbing my big tools to it just to eliminate that. I have shop vac hooked up to smaller sanders, drill that hangs on wall. If and when get larger shop space will go with cannister. They do seem to pull more. I know boss just chaned to plumbing in his shop for tools in garage and work area on one dc unit your looking at and works very well. He got the plumbing from big box store and cheaper than designated kits folks sell.

Sounds like I should put a cannister type DC on my NEED list.
Thanks for all the info

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Say what you do, Do what you say.

Hesh,

As Laurent said, that looks like the same unit as my Jet. You could get the one at Woodcraft, then add one of these from Wynn:

http://www.wynnenv.com/35A_series_cartridge_kit.htm

They're .5 micron. The added filter area made a BIG difference in suction.

After getting tired of moving a hose around with the DC, I opted for leaving a length of hose at each tool, and using quick-connects from WC to hook to the DC.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

for fine dust (sander, bandsaw) it is much better to run a 6" hose
4" hose gets better velocity to keep large chips suspended (planer, jointer), but will restrict airflow which reduces ability to capture fine particles.

6" to 2x4" adapter will likely result in a decent SP drop, having this right at the collector is the worst palce to have it. if you want a single 4" hose it is better to use a 6" to single 4" funnel shaped adapter -even better to run 6" hose and put the adapter at the tool end for tools with 4" ports.
Bandsaw is a good place to run 2x4" lines. 1 in going to the lower wheel and the second going to the blade just below the table.

-jd

Thanks guys!

I just got off the phone with the owner of my local WC store and he was, as always, very helpful.

What I learned is that there are no standards for how the various DC manufacturers rate their machines. As such it's difficult to know how they really compare assuming that what ever measurement standard they use is even accurate.

He recommended the General units saying that dust collectors are not new technology and that so long as I stay with a good brand/company known for producing decent products there are very few differences beyond how they are rated... and why....

This general unit, 1.5HP even though it says it has a 2 micron filter, not 1 micron, does get much more specific with how the unit actually tested and they list the following: Filtration: 99% of 2 micron, 86% of 1 micron and 48% of .3 micron

What I am learning is that when a manufacturer says 2 micron this does not mean that the machine does not handle 1 micron as indicated above. So looking at the specs that General offers their machine is 86% effective at the 1 micron level. That's probably good enough for me unless someone has a good reason why this machine is not up to par? Please let me know if you do?

Anyway it's in stock and he can give me 15% off if I wait until Monday to pick it up, we think that it will fit in my Honda with the trunk tied down.... , and this WoodCraft gives me exceptional service so I like to patronize them.

Can anyone think of any reason why I should not purchase this machine besides the ugly institutional/mental hospital green color?

Many thanks

Hesh, I would buy whichever machine comes with the largest impeller in the blower. Of all the 1.5 hp machines the new Grizzly is the largest at 12 3/4. I wouldn't buy one with an impeller less than 11.5" although an 11 would still work fine for what you need it for. I would buy the version that has a bag on top and then replace the upper bag with the Wynn filter Pat mentioned. It seems to be a step up from any of the ones that come with the machines. Whether you plumb it or wheel it I would run 6" to as close as you can to the machine. Wynn also sells 6" flex hose for a decent price. If you plumb any local plumbing place should be able to get you 6" pvc for not too much and the Ace outlet sells fittings for a fair price.

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Burton
http://www.legeytinstruments.com
Brookline, MA.

General is good stuff. Have used their drum sanders and other machines. I can't think of a reason not to go for it and make it work for you.

Thanks guys and yes all of your input helped me a great deal!

Filippo I understand so I need to pick-up a replacement for the 6 to 2 4" why and replace it with a single 6", get some 6" hose and a reducer from 6" to 4" for my Rikon saw and Performax thickness sander. My Rikon 6X36 belt sander also has a 2.5" so I will need an adapter for that too.

Cool - this is going to be an improvement in my shop capability and hopefully my health too.

Thanks again everyone!!!

Hey Hesh -

I too have recently McGyvered a Wynn canister filter atop my trusty (?) old Harbor Freight DC, and all I can say is that I shoulda done it sooner! Suction is now at least 2X what it was with the cloth bag. Not to mention how well it filters......
When I notice any performance loss, I give the canister a blast of compressed air...just wwork your way around the canister blowing air through the filter outside-in, starting at the top and working down. All the dust falls right down into the bag underneath...and I've replaced the cloth lower bag with a plastic bag, by they way.

I'm switching to a cyclone eventually, but this was a great intermediate step - both performance and air quality a far superior than before.

For Oneida. Excellent products, and great customer service. Definitely worth a look. And what Todd about pipe and blast gates. If you don't have time to make blast gates Lee Valley has good quality, affordable ones.

I'm sure you will become at one with your new system.

All The Best,
Danny

Another for the Oneida products and you definitely don't want to have to buy it more than once. Happy decision making

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I'll fourth the recommedation for the Oneida cyclone.

when I get my new shop built, that will be my first purchase.

I currently have a very modified 1.5 hp delta that gets rolled around. much better than my Fein shop vac, but still not enough suck to keep the air (and my lungs) clear

-jd

Hesh

This is what I have: http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=CT030
You could drive up to London and pick one up for 425 Canadian, then drive around the corner to Lee Valley for some serious tool porn.

Bob

I am not sure if it works the same way with 110v power, but dust collectors sort of add power to a circuit. Once the impeller is going like a fly wheel with no drag, other tools are easier to start. Other then really working a planer or jointer, most tools don't bog the dust collector at all. You should not have problem with power as long as there is enough juice to start the dust collector first.

I have a 3 phase rotary inverter which is not quite enough to start my big old shaper, but when I turn the collector on first it starts easily. Same thing with my solid state inverter, works better with the dc on.

I am sure one more knowledgeable with juice can explain this better and how it works with different power.
Rob

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Thanks everyone!

I had read about the Oneida in your previous post in another recent thread Todd and I certainly paid attention to what you are saying. Unfortunately my electrical service to my home is maxed out per my electrician and I can't add anything 220 now unless I drop some bucks for new supply boxes... and his time which is pretty cheap as he prefers liquid remuneration.... but not while working.... Also the Oneida is over budget for me.

But hey a 1.5HP 1,000+ CFM directly connected to my stuff is a huge improvement over the Festool vac so I am happy about that.

WC has a big sale starting today and for 2 days so I am headed to Toledo to pick up the hose and fittings that Filippo suggested and take advantage of the sale. I can pick-up my General DC (it's in stock) Monday but not before if I want 15% off and I most certainly do.

Thanks again everyone!

It depends on your work flow, but I bet you may want to install hoses and blast gates pretty quickly. After a few weeks of plugging/unplugging the DC to various machines, it really made obvious that I often cut one piece on the table saw, then thickness it on the drum sander, maybe sand the edges on the belt sander etc. I thought I was more "batch" oriented, but I am not.

EDIT: there no real need for 220v, although it's nice for motors over 1HP, DC or not. But having two circuits to run machines and DC separately is much better, especially if you remote control the DC and start everything together.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Hesh, aren't you near some closing auto research facilities? Have you inquired on setting up shop in one of the unused wind tunnels?

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Chris Oliver
Infinity Luthiers
...in the shop.

live every minute...

certainly much more flow than your festool, but don't get fooled into believing 1000+ CFM

that rating is likely with no hoses or filters...

-jd

certainly much more flow than your festool, but don't get fooled into believing 1000+ CFM

that rating is likely with no hoses or filters...

-jd[/quote

Yeah I know JD my friend. I used to be in the software business and I know all too well about claims made in the demo.....

or... well never mind Lance will get mad at me.....

Chris yeah lots of now vacant automotive manufacturing facilities in these parts. It's pretty sad and reminds me of Pennsylvania in the 80's after the US steel industry crashed....

Laurent the cool thing about my shop is that all of my larger power tools are on one long wall with a dedicated 20A circuit. It would be pretty easy to just plumb that wall for DC with one straight pipe and locate the DC in the saw room on the other side of this wall. The saw room has it's own dedicated 20A circuit so what you described I can easily do.

Thanks Todd - great info.

So my read of this is that the author rates the performance of the JDS only fair which says to me that it's likely that any other units like the JDS, and they all seem very much the same, with the same HP are only going to rate fair too. Since I don't subscribe to FWW (yet...) I'm wondering if they rated the General too and if my hunch, that they all rate only fair, is accurate?

The other thing that I am learning from this Todd is that perhaps if this is the kind of machine that I have not plumbing it and instead using a 6" hose from the DC to the tool only reducing to 4" at the tool is a better bet than having hard plumbing on my wall with multiple blast gates. Would you agree?

Many thanks.