Official Luthiers Forum!

I have an old kay that I have been messing around with and would like to know first off if it is in fact birch (pic below), and second, has anyone had experience staining this wood? I was thinking aniline dyes to get a hand rubbed look but do you think it would hold? Am I better off just spraying a burst?

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Bro. Matthew A.
Oklahoma

it is so hard to tell maple and birch apart . I find that both woods are very simialar. Staining can be tricky especially on a refin as you may not have all the finish off and it can make stain absorbsion difficult. In my cabinet making days I used a sanding technique and sanding the stain to help even the color. The other option would be toner sprays

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

sunburst...

that is a great idea

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I tried staining a maple bouzouki and the results were bad. You might consider a gel-stain so that there is little or no absorption.

Bob

I am def. going to do some kind of a sunburst. I would love to do an old world type look where edge of the burst is uneven, which I think the only way to get that look is hand rubbing it.

Do you think I should just go with the spray stain/toner?

Then neck is another issue. After sanding off the finish (and I paint i think) it yielded a greenish tented wood

What would that be...poplar or maybe pine??

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Bro. Matthew A.
Oklahoma

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Bro. Matthew A.
Oklahoma

Old eh....yup

Hand rubbing in the stains would do it...can also be done with spray equipment and sanding and spraying...but that becomes a finishers art unto itself.

Regarding the neck...the chances are the whole guitar is birch as it was a very popular building wood up to the middle of the last century. The greenish tint to the wood is more than likely the viridian green pigment used to make the black paint/stain that was used on the neck and has now penetrated the wood...is one of them things that me eye balls wood hasta see to know. A lot of "black" is actually Viridian green, Alizarin crimson and Prussian blue and is why some black have a green, red or purple tint to them. Black made from these three colours is actually transparent and as such light gets reflected around in them and the finish is warm and inviting, where as black made from Lamp black powders are solid opaque, do not reflect any light and as such are rather dullish and foreboding.

The thing that you wanna know though is ... can you get that green out of the neck .... chances are very slim if it is a bleed from the paint or stains , and definitely, no if its the wood itself. Actually me shoudent say no so fast as sometimes bleaching may knock back the colour but may also open up the grain of the wood as the fibers are being attacked.

Nice job of strippen her all down.


ICU
the
Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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The Padma,

it sounds like you may have had experience with birch in the past. Do you think analine dye on bare wood would do the trick?

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Bro. Matthew A.
Oklahoma

Whether it's birch or maple, oil stains will be extremely blotchy and unattractive. Analine dye is the best -
if you want penetration. Use water based analine if you want color fastness.

I wouldn't do either of those, though. Tint the lacquer, varnish or whatever you're using. But you will have to spray it
and it does require some know-how - especially for a burst.

I get birch by the stick and ride the band saw at buddies saw mill. Ya, me like building with birch.

Runamuck has wise words about analine....which is a very good die, strong and can be bright in its chroma.

Me, I use to take empty baby jars to the hardware store dude and get tints from there paint tinting dispenser...(Universal tints) $1 an Oz...but that was long ago. Dude now save the empty cans for me.
The stuff mixes with just about any binder you can think of, maybe is why they call it Universal tints.


There is a dude over at http://www.luthierforum.com who does the type of finish you are after,
log on there and ask around for him...dont remember him name but I think his last post was an old Gibson that he bust a hand rubbed finish on .... any ways thats his thing ...hand bursting.

Also remember seeing a hand rubbed green burst on youtube...about a year ago.


Um...what kinda Dr~in. you be practicin?


Icu
the
Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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