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So...I just broke my first side. What do you more experienced folks do when that happens?

a) laugh
b) cry
c) throw something against the wall
d) have a beer and call it a day
e) have two beers and call it a day
f) have five beers and try again

cheers, Christian

yes to a through f

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All of the above.

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Just curious, have any of you NOT broken a side? I managed to even with a bending machine, heating blanket and some experience.

What wood were you bending and at what temperature? Also what thickness? Where did it break?

Steve Brown

I broke a side on my second build and said "forget this". I ordered a side bending machine from Blues Creek the next day and side bending became the easiest part of a build. No brainer. Forget about it. Simple. Fast. Easy... Etc......

Blues Creek Rules!

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Well, no F and the others are out of order, but yes.

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Aoibeann

I wish you guys would quit using the "F" word so often! I'm gonna have to go somewhere else.

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Waddy

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Funny you should mention this very thing...

Hmmm Don't know anything about breaking or scorching sides....

Here is today's adventure:
This is African Mahogany, bent in my home made "Bender" using a blanket...

Try #1 -- Broke this one during the bend... Maybe I didn't get it hot enough...


Gee... I will try side #2 and turn up the heat a little....


Maybe it was hot enough and just needs to run a little thinner....

Anyway... I just want to say how spoiled I was bending Oak and Cherry -- They bend at ridiculously massive thicknesses... 1/8" -- NO problem... Just get it good and wet and it flops onto the form as soon as it gets good and hot... 0.085" to 0.095" shouldn't be any problem with Mahogany.. Right?

Let's just go ahead and let some air out of that big head....

I really hope I didn't ruin the blanket or I will be putting in a call to our friend John Hall as well....

Thanks

John

Are you guys using steel slats to support the bends in the Fox-bender? Also rhythm is essential, not too fast, not too slow. There's a video of Kim Walker bending sides, Guitar Gourmet I think put it out on YouTube or other. Perfect speed.
That and wrapping in thick, wet craft paper to keep some moisture inside. I've never broken a side, it doesn't mean that I won't.
Most rosewoods/rosewoods-like I don't hesitate to bend at .070"/.075", it's easier. Mahogany, walnut, maple a bit thicker at .080"/.085".

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Learn to listen to the wood. it will tell you how it feels. Learn to feel the wood relax. Sounds simple, right <LOL> well there is some truth to that. Personally I think learning to pipe bend is great experience and helps you understand how and when the wood is ready to bend. And will help eliminate errors bending with a Fox style bending machine.

The most common mistake I see with newbies to the Fox style bending is not supporting the lower slat at the waist caul with the spring loaded bar.

I'm bending 2 sides (Maple and Mango) this week and we'll see if I can avaoid a similar post.
I would also go for 2-3 beer rehab.
Kent

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I am finding that water is not always your friend . Figured mahogany and maple seem to bend well hot ( 375 to 425 ) and without water . I am usually finished the actual bending process within 4 minutes from the time I turn on the machine. Check the you tube vids I have out . Just type in blues creek guitars and you will see my process.
I use slats but I don't do the waist first . I do lower then upper then waist. Last year I bent over 300 sets and lost 3 1 was figured BRW that I anticipated trouble as it was a low end set and 2 high flame maple . The water seemed to let the runout separate and that is when I got the idea of dry bending .
It is true not all wood wants to be a guitar .

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Thanks for the comments.

To clarify what happened - I tried to bend Honduran Mahagony. I thicknessed both sides to about 0.85". The first side did bend ok. Doom came upon me with the second side.

The problem was not really the wood, but the bender. I followed John Hall's procedure from the youtube videos - so I heated up the blanket, put everything in place, waited until the temperature reached 210F and started bending. When I came to the upper bout, I started to move the caul. At that moment one of the hooks within the side bending machine that hold the spring for the upper bout decided to break.

So there I was - temperature was high and climbing, the lower bout was already bent, as was the waist (partially), but I had nothing to bend and hold the upper bout in place.

Panic stricken I switched of the blanket, feverishly searched for the spring that was catapulted somewhere in my shelf, improvised another hook, screwed it in, heated up the blanket again, tried to attached the caul, slipped and catapulted the spring into my shelf again (at that moment I was close to throwing something against the wall), found the spring, reattached the caul, spritz some water on the wood, wait for the temperature to be up there again, and started to bend the upper bout...crack.

Needless to say, that I didn't manage to keep the whole process in the 4 minute range. At least being able to successfully bend the first side gives me the confidence that I have the process down. But before bending the next side I'll definitely revisit my bender.

btw. after half an hour or so I really laughed about the whole thing. I wish I could see a video of myself

Christian

Well... At least you didn't break 1, then BBQ one...

My house still smells like I had a camp fire in the sink... which I did, in a sense....

I am going for Round II tonight... Wish me luck!

On the subject of your little bitty screw hooks self destructing... Pull the bad ones out and throw a coarse thread Drywall screw in there. They seem to hold springs just fine.

Otherwise, it sounds like you are off to a far better start than I am on this Bending Mahogany thing....

Thanks

John

Where did you get the bender ? I am sure the manufacturer will replace the defective part .

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Christian a while back I bent a side for an OM in a dread form, noticed it just after I dropped the waist home.... and must have looked like you, probably sounded like you too &*&^%$%% dancing around with my blood pressure skyrocketing..... I did the same thing an hour later sat down and laughed about it and the next day I took the side of the bender and put it in my back yard and shot it.... That felt great!

What I wanted to add is that for any operations that I am not an old pro at which BTW is everything that I do I try to remember to do a dry run - especially when doing glue-ups with HHG. Dry runs will let you know what we need and didn't have handy etc.

Sort of on topic question: Has anyone used either aluminum or brass instead of stainless steel in their fox style bending machines for the slats in the bending process? Aluminum transfers heat really fast and I'm not sure about brass.

The reason I ask is that I am finishing my bending machine and when I was at the local hardware store I noticed 6" x 32" kick plates for doors. They have holes predrilled in the ends that could be used to hold them down and seem to be the right size. And...the prices was right...provided I'm not just throwing money away on something that won't work.

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Jamie M

I already filed a lawsuit against the manufacturer of the bender...a certain Christian Schmid - he'll get a replacement ASAP

I'll probably replace all of the hooks with something stronger - They did hold up well so far, and maybe only the one just was defective (a clean crack right in the middle), but I lost confidence in them now.

Christian

Two things Hesh.

1) You are really getting into country life way more than I expected. That's the second thing from your shop that you shot that I know of. I'm glad you have finally found a way to relieve some of the stress in your life.

2) Its hard to do a dry run with a bender. There isn't anything you can put in there that will replicate how the wood acts and the juggling you go through the first could of times. Unless of course by dry run you mean using practice sides, like the ones I got from Uncle Bob, and promptly broke.

Jamie, I haven't used brass. My concern with it would be that it would not give enough support. Its a soft metal to begin with and then add holes to it. Yeah, not really feeling warm and cozy about that. I bought thin shim stock to make into a slat. I had mixed results with it. I found that I could bend a bit more aggressively (consistently successful) if I used a thicker slat than the thinner one. It might have been just a natural outcome of doing more bendings and getting a feel for things, true. But I don't think that the benefit of extra thickness can just be dismissed out of hand. Like with most things we do here, you can give it a go and see if it works for you.

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Aoibeann

Thanks Lillian. I may give the brass a try and see how it goes. I'll put a post up once I've done it.

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Jamie M

Do not use brass unless you want green wood , the heat combined with water chemistry can stain and you will have copper sulfate in your wood , this is a blue mineral that won't come out easy . Stainless is the best as it gives a good heat transfer and has more support . The slats are as much for heat transfer and for support in the pressing operation. Aluminum can also stain with Koa and water chemistry . You can use it but be careful .
As for dry run , you can get a feel for it without wood , just go through the motions of bending to get a feel for the process. A few dry runs and you will have a good feeling for what you need to do

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

John, would kraft paper be enough to keep the brass from staining or would foil wrapped sides be a better option?

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Aoibeann

I use aluminum slats that are fairly heavy from some flashing that I had. I don't have the issues of cracking that some have when removing the sides from the bender. I use aluminum foil also.

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Ken Franklin
clumsy yet persistent
https://www.kenfranklinukulele.com

No sense in starting another topic when my questions will fit in quite nicely with this thread.

1. Will black pipe work? I've got a section of thin-walled black that I was thinking might work fine, until I read this thread.
My intent is to build my own bender

2. I'm in the process of thinning down my sides. What should be a target thickness? I'm working with air dried quarter sawn (nothing special on grain, except it does have some curl) black walnut. It's my stock, so I've got plenty to 'spirment on.

3. Should the back approximate the same thickness?

4. What temp should the bender be - approximately. I'm either gonna rig a temp gauge into the bender, or go with my wife's meat thermometer. Shhhhhh....please don't tell her.