Official Luthiers Forum!

My experiance with disassembly of an existing fish glue jount is that it relases at very near the same temp of HHG. The only draw back to fish glue is that warm moisture will release it faster than HHG but not by much. I think HHG draws the joint in a bit more than fish but here again not much. I have built several guitars that are now 2 years old with fish glue and had zero joint failures. I still use HHG where pratical like braces but anywhere I need to carfully adjust alignment and a bit of open time I use fish glue I really like fish glue on rubbed joints like plate seams.

Markus,
You can get fish glue from Kremer in Germany.

http://www.kremer-pigmente.de/shopint/i ... duct=63550

As used by Colin S., Dave White, me and others on this side of the pond.

I was hoping David Laplante would kick in on this one.
He took the Romanillos course & is well versed in fish glue

mike
where are ya Dave?
mc

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Mike Collins

Michael - Thanks for the follow up. It's good to hear directly from someone who has tested the release points. On Lee Valley's website they list HHG as having "low" heat resistance and fish glue as "500° F." That seemed kind of high to me.

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George :-)

Thanks for all your replies!

Good point!

@SteveG:
thanks a lot Steve! I knew the "glue-video" with Romanillos but I never paid attention to the sticker on his glue bottle... I'll have a try if Baumgärtel will let me pass as a "commercially acknowledged piano builder" (condition to subscribe to the their price list) - I never built a piano and I am not planning on building one either...


Precious link!
This article from norlandproducts.com is really inspiring reading!


I'm looking forward to be happy with it too

Thanks a lot for this info! So I will not have to start with commercial piano building...
It's funny: the description on Kremer's site says in English that shelf live was 5 years - in German it says only 1 year , and in the detailed German description it says 10 years! I think I'll order the detailed German descripcion and ask them to remove the 1-year label on the bottle before shipping

Again: thanks everybody for your great help!

I just finished a LV bottle that was here for 2 years, never refrigerated, often subject to nasty summer temperatures, but still sticky as h*** when using and dried squeeze out still glass hard. It has not changed the consistency or smell at all (btw it is not smelly at all)

I really like fish glue. The open time is ridiculously long so it is wonderful for closing the box, gluing the FB and the binding. I use hide glue now for some braces, the lining and other quick joints but the fish is still my overall favorite glue.

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Build log

But I think clamping time is not precisely what you would call short. I read something of 12 hours... Is this certain?
(Oh well, I could live with that, I will not trash my other glues but keep them for the applications (or my moods) that require a quicker tack )

Not much I can add Mike to what you guys have already said!
I was introduced to fish glue at the Romanillos course as you mentioned and now use it for most everything.
It's especially useful for making up thick laminations of veneers to cut up for marquetry purflings.

I.ve used fish glue (not exclusively) for a few years now. So far it hasn't failed me. I've also used it in gluing up veneer strips for rosette logs. Due to the number of strips, clamping technique and the amount of glue, it can take days for it to fully cure. That's an exceptional circumstance though.
I did some tests with diluted Fish Glue but that resulted in weak joints. Perhaps they needed to be sized beforehand and I will have to do some more testing on this particular aspect.

Yes I clamp it for about 12h just as the label suggests. For my first guitars it has been very frustrating (that obseseive urge to see how it went, I know too well) but in time I got used to it and once you establish a sequence that allows you to do other things while waiting, it's perfectly OK.

If there is enough wood to take the moisture, and the glue line is thin, I think it sets in solidly in about 1 to 2 hours. I did break tests in a few occasions and it seems to rip the wood that soon. I still clamp it for 10-16hours (depends on timing and application) just to make sure. As Michael said, inlay logs take days to cure. Bunch of glue, little wood, the cauls are sealed, water has no quick way out...

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Build log

It probably is high but keep in mid that is the temp it will fail at on its own, not the temp it is mechanically separable.