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This post is much more to thank Michael Payne for his consistent efforts to teach FP-from someone who has finally gotten it. I am doing some B---- necks and pots/rims/resonators. I don't do nitro because of lack of safe facilities. I have always been most comfortable with a hardening oil finish. But, I really wanted to do FP. Since I am finishing so much maple I am able to avoid pore filling issues. My first attempt resulted in pulling off shellac as I built up body. Well, I had printed just one of the many occasions when Michael patiently taught(way back when-Waddy was confused on FP) and re-read it. TOO WET!. I thought I had been squeezing out excess shellac(2 pound, fresh Hock Pale) from my muneca. So. I prepared a new one, cheesecloth inner, linen outer, and let it rest overnight. This morning, starting at 5:30 AM, I began to body a beautiful natural maple neck with ebony "peghead" and heelplate. The only places I have varied are spiriting and oil. That may seem like a great deal to vary, but here is what is happening. The maple and ebony is taking coats with no mini-ridges from the linen, The few pores in the ebony leveled right away after two bodying sessions-maple was smooth from the start. The muneca has always been moving throughout contact. I started blotting on the back of my hand until I felt little coolness and saw immediate vaporizing.

During a bodying session I noticed a faint scratch(how it got there is a long story). I did not run for the micro-mesh, as emphasized by Michael. I decided to continue my bodying to see if the finish was really building. In between body coats, I stored my muneca in a ziploc. I have not had to recharge the muneca. It is continuing to lay down coats without sticking and I know I am really building because the scratch is gone.

I have walnut oil at the ready along with ethanol. Because I am working DRY, neither has become necessary. I don't bear down hard, just long "confident" feeling strokes, doing touch and go like a pilot practicing landings. I have a total of seven bodying sessions done and the wood glows and there is visible depth to the finish and the finish is dead smooth everywhere. The epiphany was trusting to "dry."

I am going to do two more "coats" but can see no point in doing more, unless one of those is finally the one that begs for oil and needs to be followed with spiriting. So far, the feel does not suggest that-but, I am ready. I religiously blot on my hand everytime I do a session. I do not assume anything even though I have not reloaded. Right now, I would be proud for anyone to see this result.

Thank you, Michael. Mike T.

PS- I really worked over my hands with "Burt's Bees" last night-that may explain why I have not had to oil.

I wear nitrile gloves while I FP. The alcohol really dries out your hands, and that place where you hit the muneca on the back of your hand, really gets cakey with shellac! Hard to get off, even with alcohol. It also protects the surface some from nail scratch accidents.

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Waddy

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Hi Waddy-the first time I did these necks, I did wear nitriles. That was when I was still working too wet. I have a good grip on the neck because the peghead built up so fast and smooth that I can just hold it. Then, i lay it down on a hard surface, fretboard down, and glide a couple of strokes on the back of the peghead. I am done with the ebony surfaces. It really looks so perfect-it is hard to believe how it has come together. Before bedtime tonight, I'll wash my hands with auto mechanic's orange/pumice hand cleaner-then more Burt's Bees. I am really battling dry RH-below zero here for several days; not that uncommon for Iowa at all. My hands were cracked and bleeding in places-Burt's helps some-I did not want a reddish tint in my FP. . One would be hard pressed to drag me away from results like this. I just did the last session, still no reload and still no sticking. I must have really nailed the cut-and I am using well washed linen. One thing that may have helped the beginning of the whole process is that I popped the grain with a deeply rubbed in, very thin hardening oil wash coat It was allowed to dry overnight, though that was "overkill." The brand I use dries much faster than Tru-Oil and sets harder. Mike T.

Glad ists going well Mike keep up the good work

Mike, can you link to the thread or threads that help you get it? I need badly to get it, too! Thanks!

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"...you have to get over your strict adherence to your largely imagined notion of absolute perfection..."

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Welllll??????

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

he means with gloves on I do not suggest to do it to bare hands. Just so all know.

Michael, or Anyone-Any other thoughts on why this is going so well without oil? I have continued to add sessions-in a way to see when things will go "South" on me. At 9 + sessions, still doing quite dry, I can glide on a coat of shellac that adds body to the finish, yet does not seem thick. I am not bearing down really hard-just a firm stroke the full length of the neck, Each time, though, I can watch the stroke flash off and glide on the next stroke parallel and overlapping a bit and it all just melds perfectly.The results are the same on the ebony peghead and heelcap-deep, smooth surface. Still no fabric marks, no stickiness and still very attractive-I'm mystified. Answers? mt( I finally reloaded-used a syringe and hypodermic needle left over from my bi-weekly deep muscle injections-added maybe a cc into the center of the muneca, then squeezing it a bit to spread from the center)

To be honest No!? You nust have the your inner pad just right. Linen helps some but things are just going good for you. Now I have to say I think you will need oil when you change to the lighter cut to be able to properly glaze. Face it Mike your just a freak just kidding

Based on the level of gloss I have right now and the feel of these necks, I was not going to glaze. I would call the present appearance as more than satin, or semi-gloss, but not high gloss. I want to stop where I am. I think what I will do is go to glaze on one to see what I get. That is probably where it will all fall apart.mt

PS-should I wait a few days before trying the glaze stage. I am going to choose the more difficult-a dark stained straight maple neck. The prettiest one- natural color,very curly; I need to get it on the banjo(there, I said it!) so I can play.mt

There is no need to wait to glaze as glazing is solvent working the shellac just as bodying is. If you should find that you need to level by sanding (I can't belive I even said that ) or you should want to buff or abrasive compound polish give it a week.

I'm going to make a suggestion! I'll be shot at dawn by the French Polishing police, but recently, I re-polished my #2 guitar. I had done a quick finish on it, and a poor job of pore filling. Using Walnut oil as the liquid, I went through the grits with Micromesh, starting at 6,000 or something like that - whatever their instructions said to start with on polishing finishes. When done, I went through a few very light glazing coats. It came out very well. It smoothed out the ridges nicely. The back is now glass smooth. The process was very fast. It only took very light sanding with each grit, to get there. The oil wipes right off with a paper towel or cloth. Then, a light stiffing off to remove the oil, still on the surface, and a couple of glazing sessions to kill the artificial look of the final finish. I could have, probably, done it with pumice, but knew it would take forever.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Sanding works, most tutorials tell you to do so. I’m not going to shoot you, I’m not going to shoot you...........Like heck I not!!!! Just kidding Like I said sanding works it is just not for me as it is not needed. I don't because I know in 2-5 sessions I could have spirited out the imperfections without sanding. but I promise I don't hold it against you

I have found that I want to taper the edges of the soundboard on my first classical to open up the sound a bit more. I made the soundboard too thick, and the sound is just a bit too soft. I meant to do this during the building phase, but got rushed trying to meet a deadline for the class I was in and forgot.

I used french polish for the finish. I'm thinking it's pretty simple to just plane and sand down the outer 2" or so of the soundboard to perform this thinning and then repolish. The binding has sufficient height to allow this modification.

My question: Is this likely to show a witness line where old polish meets new? The original polish was applied about 7-8 months ago if that matters. I don't want to have to remove all polish on the entire top if I don't have to (particularly around the bridge).

Thanks!

As long as the shellac is from the sam batch then the color should be good. you will need to first soften the edges of the shellac at the newly planed line by spiriting off, sell the fresh wood, and start bodying. now that is the theoretical point of view. The odds are yo will be able to notice the change because the top oxidized some before you ever go the first seal coat on of the first finish. the newly planed wood will be a differnt slightly differnt color when you get the new seal coat on so yes you will likely see this. but it is not an issue of the shellac it is an issue of the wood.

Oh boy Michael, were you correct on this one. There was not even a close resemblance in color. The original cedar top had turned red over time, and the fresh wood is a bright beige. I wound up with an inverted sunburst around my guitar due to the different wood colors. I can't say I wasn't warned.

But every problem is a new opportunity to learn. I've now learned how to remove the bridge, and luckily I cheated on this build and used a removable neck like a steel string (2 bolts) so the neck and fingerboard were easy to remove (who says cheaters aren't rewarded occasionally!). The entire top is now sanded down to fresh wood so that the edges don't look so awful and I even managed not to sand through the rosette.

Now I get to start fresh on your french polish instructions. Last time I was dipping the pad to apply shellac, but this time I'll follow the proper methods.