Official Luthiers Forum!

So regarding the vapor barrier...as I am about to insulate and drywall my shop space (22x36 redwood sheathing I believe with tar paper and stucco), is it appropriate to put the plastic sheeting on under the drywall? Does it matter much as the concrete floors may or may not have any vapor barrier under them (I'm guessing they don't)? I live in Northern Calif where the humidity is low during the summer and temps run upwards of 115. Winters are fairly mild, no snow, infrequently temps into the teens.

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but was interested in the ideas being put forth.

Thank you.

Darrin

You seem to think i have it out for you or something but i don't. It is the last thing i want. As far as i can tell you are a very talented man i checked out your website and blog and am very impressed.

As in the question what you use not what you build and as i said if it wasn't clear in my main post i did make it clear that your idea while a good idea in most situations is not a good idea in mine. but you seem intent on beating this one for some reason that is beyond me.

When a wall is built to breath and you seal it off what happens to the moisture? What happens to lime mortar in these situations. The mortar decays. These old walls need to be heated and free to breath. If they dry out they will decay and if they get to wet they decay. Ever see how fast an abandoned house in the UK will decay? People in the UK seem to get suckered into all sorts of insulation and modernization schemes, some grants are even offered for some. However customers are left with a host of problems due to these ideas.

Like i said before I don't have the patients to go into a subject that is not part of the thread, if you wish to educate yourself on heritage buildings in the UK be my guest. I have no intention of digging up proof just to prove you wrong. I'm quite certain that if it was that easy to solve my problem that everyone would be doing it to these old houses.

We'd save a hellofalot of heating money that's for sure. It cost us the equivilent of 400 of your dollars a month to heat our place.... What's funny about this situation is that you are actually treating me like i'm the one who doesn't know what he is talking about and accusing me of treating you badly however it is the other way around just by you thinking that I know nothing and that you know better then me. I have not disparaged you, only stated a fact that you don't know what you are talking about. I don't expect you to, I doubt you have many buildings that are as old as our house or built the same in the USA, the country isn't even as old as our house.

Any how I have a dehumidifier on it's way looking at making a tester and getting a few digital ones. In a couple of months i'll be able to start building guitars can we move on from building walls now?

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Disappointment is an empty box full of expectation

Darrin D Oilar,
when i lived in Canada the vapour barrier went under the drywall. Usually your concrete floor will have a vapour barrier under it as well, but usually gets punctured by the men putting the concrete in. as well your foundation will be damproofed with tar and pitch where the ties go through. Modern buildings are designed to be air tight. That's why they came up with HRV units. they give you a third air exchange per hour with 98% efficiency. Modern buildings are easier to control.

I'd be happy if someone hijacked this thread with something worth talking about.

check with your local building authority about whether or not there would be a vapour barrier under your slab. It would be also good to know if it is an engineered slab or if it is a foundation with footings. Dig a bit around the outside to see if it has been painted with tar, if not do so it will help with damp on the concrete floor.

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Disappointment is an empty box full of expectation

Sorry I didn't reply to this earlier (on holiday)

Here is a plan ( of sorts ) of my Hair Hygrometer. You could probably build it bigger or smaller but I'll stay with the same dimensions I have used as I know it to function perfectly.





More info including callibrating with this link . Look for the update at the end of the thread

http://www.anzlf.com/viewtopic.php?t=47

Only takes a few minutes to knock up and at no cost. Accurate , and performs way better than other hygrometers I have. Try it yourself

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CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
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So will you be e-baying your daughters long hair?

What will three strands fetch?

My Partner dye's her hair, will this affect it much? It is only semi-permanent colour if that makes a difference.

my dehumidifier comes today as well so i can start getting the room ready for everything that goes in it. I have some wood tables in there i am going to use until i can get my hands on some old Scottish pine rafters to make a work bench for the room, will dehumidifying the room wreck them or will they adjust?

Should i take them out and introduce them to the room slowly?

I guess anything that will be made for the room should be acclimatized to the room, shouldn't it?

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Disappointment is an empty box full of expectation

Umm, I put it to my daughter ,and she's not at all too happy about the idea , even after assuring her she has such a full head of hair and would be helping out the luthier community ( and my wallet )

I really don't think the hair dye will make any difference , so try it anyways. It's easily replaced . I've read of horse hair being used ( violin bow hair might be easier than chasing a horse around a paddock with a pair of scissors ) , but I think human hair is prefferable. Although my unit looks a little rough around the edges , I can assure you it works flawlessly . I tend to disregard the other Hygrometers I have in the shop.

I'd be moving your pine rafters into your acclimatized room for a while before assembling them into benches like you say.

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CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
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Kids... No sense of community. Oh well. I have it built now. My partner has long hair so all i had to do was rub my hands in the carpet and had enough hair. It's funny when you don't want the darn stuff it's every where and when you want some it is hard to find.

I spent most of the day setting up the sound system in the shop. One must have music so today i'm going to calibrate it. Mine looks worse then yours actually. I had an old save on more card, from when i lived in canada, so that is finally put to some use. the rest looks the same. Just have to put some tape on it and put a few marks on it.

Thanks everyone for your help on this. And remember if you live in the UK. Do not build a internal walls in an old stone walled cottage and seal the room to control the environment without getting expert advice. And when i mean expert advice not from just any builder, one with extensive experience with heritage buildings.

I can say however I will be using that idea on my shop as it is just a block building. So thanks for the idea. This has been an interesting and educational, and very helpful so thanks everyone.

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Disappointment is an empty box full of expectation