Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey all,
I haven't been here in quite some time - hope there are some of the same old names around. Anyway, I just moved into a new house and even though my wish was to have a 3 car garage I ended up with a 2 (small 2 at that). So I have decided to partition off part of the garage as it would be a tight fit with my wife's SUV and my car anyway and my car would likely be out most the time anyway. Well the dims I think I came up with are only about 11' (plus 2' bump before I run into the water heater) x 7' with an addition. Almost 13' x 7'. Very small I know. I played with Google's Cad application to see what it might look like. I haven't put everything in there but there is a 7' bench, 14" bandsaw, troyj. I will have lots of wall shelves and such. Everyone wants more room, but could a beginner like me with mostly tabletop power tools be okay in this small space? Let me know what you think and what I should consider before putting up some walls. Bench layout? Oh, and I could add some length, but probably not much width.

Thanks all,
Christian

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Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - Louis Hector Berlioz

Chansen / C hansen / C. Hansen / Christian Hansen - not a handle.

Christian

hello there
can you be a bit more specific in your build process
e.g what finish will you be using? will you be doing it there

how many big tools do you have ? or plan on getting ? do you plan on using that saw a lot
youll want to get a hydraulic lift table if its more than that bandsaw
so you can pull them easily out when needed

also that place is gonna get dusty you should think about getting a dust collector
or rigging a vacum that you can move around easily
i suggest you make everything solid but detachable as you never know
when you might get a good deal on something
hope this helps happy christmas
tomas

I am a beginner also and my shop when done will be about 13x13. I have a 7 foot workbench (from the 1890s which is awesome), and the rest pretty much benchtop tools. The way I build that is plenty for me at this time. I am making a wedge/spanish clamping jig so when they are glued, I can just put them under the workbench to dry or against a wall out of the way. I will probably try my hand at french polishing for a finish so no concerns there as far as fumes or special knock down "rooms". I am sure I will wish I had more room during some parts of the build but this is what I have for now and will make it work...ohyeah, i will be using mostly hand tools so no need for a huge dust collection system

My bandsaw's a 9" that stores under my bench when not in use and I don't have a troj, but I make due with 11'x7'...Instead of the bandsaw my drum sander goes there on wheel, to pull out when needed, and my shelves are on the other side of the bench. I'm kinda limited because theres 3 doors out of my "shop" so I can only actually use about half anything.

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Rob

It may have already been mentioned, but you won't be able to saw much with your bandsaw in the corner. Does it have wheels? That would be great. My shop is 12"X20" but I've got a bunch of tools. My dust collector is outside. That helps alot with space, and gets the dust outside. I've got a seperate finishing room.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

It's good to see you again Christian. I've been wondering what you've been up too lately.

Your shop is about the same size as the bedroom I'm using. Things get tight in there quick. Your bench looks to be about the same as mine. You don't need it that big. Its nice to have, but no necessary. If you don't want to reduce the bench footprint, fill the bottom with storage, drawers and shelves. Go up with your wood. Build a storage rack right over you bench. Use that for your go bar deck. If you inlet lights on the bottom of the wood storage, cover them with plexiglass. The light will come through and you don't have to worry about where you place the next go bar rod.

The anti fatigue mats that Rockler sells are worth the money. The first one I bought ended up in the kitchen in front of the sink. Get two or three, they are cheap insurance for your tools and your joints. http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10672&filter=mat

Check out the state surplus place in Auburn for dorm furniture. They have wardrobes and chests that can be turned into great tool storage. I picked up a smallish 3 drawer chest that is the base for my small hand tool chest.

Found a source for local wood that you might be interested in checking out. Drop me a line when its time to go shopping and I'll introduce you.

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Aoibeann

Thanks for the tips everyone. The bandsaw is not on a mobile base yet, but it will be. That is really the only big item I have and if I can avoid it... the only. As for finish - I think I will go with with french polish there in the shop. Dust collection is going to be a challenge. I could actually put a dust collector on the other side of the near wall - that would help with space. I have a go-bar deck I built, but I like the idea of using an overhead shelf above the bench. Tomas - I am going to try to have a small drill press, belt/disc sander, and maybe a small table saw (do they have bench top models?). I have a router that I would like to build a better table for it but am not sure yet what to do for that.

Lillian, good to see you are still hanging out here. Thanks for the tip on the mats - I'll definitely be getting these. Since it is my garage I am still unsure what to do with the bare concrete. I'll let you know when I plan on picking more supplies. Is the local place close?

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Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - Louis Hector Berlioz

Chansen / C hansen / C. Hansen / Christian Hansen - not a handle.

Christian

hi again if i were you id make that bench be able to work in conjuntion with your bandsaw
and your drill press and belt sander.
mabye you might think to invest in a safe t plainer since you dont want
too many big tools
just talkin out loud here
you could put your bench in the middle of the room (the opposite way)
with a hatch to go under if its a tight fit , and have your vacum under the bench
so you dont have to worry about the dust collection ?

also did your plans involve on the humidty being stable
insulation could shrink the room a few inches also
you might plan things perfectly but at the end of the day
you might switch it all around ( a new tool could cause all this)
good luck

Space is always a problem. Mine is in a bedroom...13' by a little under 9' (dust collector & wood storage are in the closet). Some of the "keys" for me were try to keep all work surfaces at the same level, multi-use work surfaces wherever you can, storage near ceiling and 50 or 60 layout rearrangements on cad & you're there! Here are a couple of shots...maybe you'll see something you can use.

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Dave
Milton, ON

Christian, check this thread out. You might see a few things that will make life easier. Check out Arnt tool cabinet on page 3
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17853&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Well, I guess close is a relative term. He's just outside of Lynden. Cuts wood as a means of keeping him out from under his wife's feet since he retired 20 some odd years ago. I was supposed to go last weekend, but the flu visited our house. I know he has apple, alder, maple, fir, black walnut, yew, and spruce.

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Aoibeann

I have a small shop too and most of my tools are on wheels so i can move them back and fourth to the center when i need to use one. I'm also planning a movable bench so i can pull it to the middle so i can work on an instrument from all sides if need be. I found up against a wall makes it harder to do things without flipping it around....Mike

Christian,

I am planning to build a small shop in my garage too. I have been doing so sketches and hope to start in early January. Like you, I want to be able to continue parking both of our cars in my 2-car garage. I am going to make use of a good idea that I got from Steve here locally. You may be able to do it to.

My shop only has enough room for 5'x20' shop in its end. But by building a wall out at the 8' foot point with 2 openings so that the nose of each car can go through the wall, both the cars still fit fine AND now I have room for benches on both sides with an isle down the middle (effectively 8'x20' size). The benches on one side will actually be over the hoods of the cars! While I will not have under-bench storage on this side, it will have wall space for shelves and storage above the benches. This effectively increases my shop space from 100 sq. feet to 160 sq ft, a 60% increase. I'll put a window AC unit exhausting out into the garage (I have a drain for condensate) so that I can control humidity (Only excess humidity is ever a problem in the Houston area.) and have enough comfort to work year-around.

Hope this makes sense in case it works for you.

Ed

Ed, that sounds like the little campers that fit in the back of a pick up truck. Cool idea. I have a 20' x 40' basement and the more room I allocate for myself, the more out of hand the mess gets.

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It is better to try and fail, than never try at all

Robert,

When I lived up north in Chicago-land I had a nice sized basement. Wish I had one here. Your 800 sq ft sounds great. (Of course, I don't have to live through the cold winters anymore.)

Actually, I know you are right about more space causing messes to get out of hand. I tend to use all the space I have and create excess clutter. My small shop will not allow me that luxury.

Ed

Interesting idea Ed. If I read it correctly you are going to have cut-outs in the wall where the cars park? Our house is fairly new and the garage is probably the smallest you can get while still calling it a two-car. I think I'm going to have to stick with using one side. I might be able to get more space once I see a car in the garage.

Dave / Lillian, thanks for the link and for the pictures. I got a few ideas from these. Lynden huh? That's not too terribly far. I'll let you know when I'm in the market for some more items. Black walnut is a favorite of mine.

Thanks,

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Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - Louis Hector Berlioz

Chansen / C hansen / C. Hansen / Christian Hansen - not a handle.

Christian

Hey, Christian, good to see you here again. How's the family? your little boy's about ready to start helping out in the shop, isn't he?

If it were my shop, with space at such a premium, I'd put the troji in storage and use the pipe clamps mounted on the workbench that I think Sylvan Wells showed us awhile back. The troji would take up valuable floor space while not being used all the time. Try to use spaces for more than one purpose, such as the go-bar deck built to use the bench like Lillian suggested. Make as much use of ceiling space as you can, even hang tools up but not over the bench, unless you like tool divebombing the guitar you're working on. DAMHIKT.

Put the BS and drum sander on wheels. I've built a couple bases for mine from 3/4" ply with storage underneath, with casters from Harbor Freight. Pretty inexpensive.

Good luck, have fun.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Christian,

Yes, there will be two cutouts, one for each car front end. Since I had an extra 5' at the end of the garage and 2 8' garage doors with some space between them (room for a shop door), this worked for me. Since your garage is so short, it would not work in the same way for you.

Ed

Hey Pat - Good to hear from you. Yeah, I'll start sifting through the archives here to see what I can do to maximize space. I hadn't seen the workbench clamps that will hold like a troji - I'll check it out. Yep, the little guy will be two in March. He *helps* out with all kinds of projects around the house. He tries to play guitar too so I figure I should put a small guitar or uke together for him before he turns 16. Hopefully I can be back around here a little more often now that I'm not always working on our old house. See you around.

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Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - Louis Hector Berlioz

Chansen / C hansen / C. Hansen / Christian Hansen - not a handle.

Christian

Christian,

Cool. Two is a great age. But then I guess they're all great ages.

Here's a link about the clamp setup.

http://www.wellsguitars.com/Articles/Guitar_Holder.php

When not in use, the pipe can be unscrewed and stashed out of the way.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Hi Christian, good to see you. Tight quarters in that small space for sure! But while you're sacrificing, consider removing the hot water heater. That'll open up that 2' of space, into which you can put--oh--at least a dust collection system. Install some solar water heaters on your roof, get some green credit, and Bob's your uncle.


Or not.

Just a thought.

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

I think you are on the right track. Make as many things mobile as possible and find a specific place for everything. From there it is just about staying organized. I am in the garage and have a little more room but I have more fixed tools so space becomes cramped fast.

good luck

Hi Christian... Great to see you back at it my friend.

If you recall I started my guitar building career in a spare bathroom in my old condo.... I built 7 guitars in there and before moving out I had a go-bar deck, work bench, thickness sander, drill press, belt sander, shop vac, buffing arbor, air compressor tool cabinet, 2 belt sanders and more all in my bathroom. My tub held the compressor and my shower stall was wood storage...

It was all I knew and as such I was happy there and just kept on building.

Good luck to ya.

Pat - Thanks for the link. That is indeed a much better approach for my needs.

Steve - Actually the water heater is further back, the imaginary wall (next to the bandsaw) I made is the space I can use. It goes a bit further back before the water heater and furnace begin. And yes, I'm pretty sure I do have an uncle named Bob. Doesn't everyone?

Hesh - I do remember. That has actually been my motivation for not coveting a larger shop that I won't have for years to come. I'm lighter on the power tools than you were, but I think storage and planning as I grow will be key.

It's nice to see everyone still around to help an amateur like me! I'll post some pics as it gets put together. See you around!

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Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - Louis Hector Berlioz

Chansen / C hansen / C. Hansen / Christian Hansen - not a handle.

Christian

that doesn't leave much room for grooming concerns.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

Hesh didn't need no stinkin bath!

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Waddy

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