Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Tue Aug 05, 2025 1:40 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:43 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 156
First name: Ellison
City: Whitman
State: MA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
I started a thread on light bulb benders recently. Thank you to everyone who replied. You're advice and collective experience is invaluable to someone such as me. Anyway, it seemed the general consensus from the previous thread was that I should buy a heating blanket. I looked into doing this, but I simply don't have the cash flow at the moment. I may decide to do it in the future, but I figured I'd just use what I already have and it can be a good learning experience at the least.

Well, after doing all of my research and prep work and getting my nerves up, I bent my first side tonight. What a nerve racking experience! It was pretty scary, but after I bent the first bout I knew everything would work out. I just didn't want to split it into pieces! Anyway, everything seemed to work just fine except that I may have some scorching in a few places. There seemed to be some grayness in a few places and a few little black spots. The picture below is of the worst of the spots. I'm guessing I didn't have enough moisture in these areas, but maybe one of you will tell me different. I'll be bending the other side tomorrow, so I just want to get some information to make sure I don't make the same mistake(s). Thanks for your help.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:07 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:50 pm
Posts: 2711
Location: Victoria, BC
First name: John
Last Name: Abercrombie
Status: Amateur
I re-sized your pic- hope you don't mind.
There are many 'resizer' sites online- http://www.resize2mail.com/ seemed to work for your pic.
Some folks are on dial-up or pay for their bandwith, so best to keep the file sizes down if possible.

That doesn't look very 'burnt'- a bit hard to tell in a pic, without 'before and after'.
You will have to sand the sides a bit after the body is assembled, so that may clean up the look a bit.

How long did it take to bend?

What is the side clamped to, in the picture?

Cheers
John


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:36 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:57 pm
Posts: 775
Location: Powell River BC Canada
First name: Daniel
Last Name: Minard
City: Powell River
State: BC
Country: Canada
That doesn't look like scorching to me. If you are using a fox bender with bulbs, the side wouldn't get that much heat on the outer surface. To get scorching on the outside, the inside would be burned to a crisp.
I have gotten stains similar to that with my spring steel slats leeching rust into the wood. Iron stain on wood is often black, just like that. (Iron splinters from steel wool will make a horrible mess on unfinished wood, if the wood gets damp.)
I now make sure the aluminum foil is in good shape before I start bending. I don't trust paper alone as a barrier between a non-stainless slat & the side.
I may be off in left field on this, but to me, it doesn't look like a "too much heat / not enough moisture" problem.
The paler shadows should sand out... The really dark spots may be there forever, to remind you of just one more inch on the long learning curve.
Good luck & don't be discouraged! It really IS a long curve... And I promise there will be more trip-ups along the way.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:06 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:56 am
Posts: 1825
Location: Grover NC
First name: Woodrow
Last Name: Brackett
City: Grover
State: NC
Zip/Postal Code: 28073
Country: USA
Focus: Build
I use spring steel (not stainless) slats because they work best for me. What I do is wrap my slats in foil. The foil will last for several bends. I use paper on both sides of the wood per Todd's bending tutorial.

_________________
I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:28 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:42 pm
Posts: 2360
Location: Windsor Ontario Canada
First name: Fred
Last Name: Tellier
City: Windsor
State: Ontario
Zip/Postal Code: N8T2C6
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
It looks to me like some of the sap in the wood came to the surface and scorched, this will scrape and sand out if that is what it is. Use of foil as suggested above if wrapped around the side will help hold the moisture in the wood longer and might help.

Fred

_________________
Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:48 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 9:33 am
Posts: 486
First name: Kent
Last Name: Bailey
City: Florissant
State: Colorado
Zip/Postal Code: 80816
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I agree with Fred.....I think you have a cell sap blowout because of heat. Your issue looks small and will probably not be an issue.
Many times you will have small pockets of sap held with in a few wood cells and heat will expand those cells and rupture. If no heat is applied these cells lay dormant and end up crystallizing with age. Even crystallized pockets will re solidify with heat and rupture through a grain cell to the surface. You can also run into these crystallized cell areas when you reach them in the sanding or scraping phase. I find soft and hard pockets in carving projects all the time because I usually work with wood much thicker than luthier material. No way to know where these buggers are.

If your lucky, the sap pockets are still buried within the wood and just escaped through a open grain cell. A light scraping or sanding might take care of the visual discoloration, however, beware...the deeper you go the bigger the pocket may become. I have had to clean out a pocket in carvings and fill or plug with a matched grain piece of wood to save the project.

Kent

_________________
Wood Creations by Kent A. Bailey
EXCELLENCE IN SCULPTURE, CARVING, LUTHIER, ARCHITECTURAL MILLWORK AND DESIGN

http://www.kabart.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:19 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:00 pm
Posts: 247
First name: Matthew
Last Name: Dollinger
City: Beaverton
State: Oregon
Zip/Postal Code: 97005
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I have similar issues on occasion. More often than not, it will sand out without an issue.

-Matthew


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:57 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 156
First name: Ellison
City: Whitman
State: MA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Thanks for the replies, folks. Well I'm glad to hear it isn't scorched. Hopefully the flaws will sand out, but if they don't it's not a big deal. That side will be the one facing downward, so it won't be as visible.

So I took everyone's advice this morning when I bent the second side and I added paper and aluminum foil to the sandwich. Would ya believe it, the side came out perfect!

And to answer one of your previous questions about what the side was clamped to in the picture, I built a mold with a lip on the outside for the freshly bent side to be clamped to while it cools and dries. I don't know if it was really necessary or not, but I saw someone else using something similar and figured I'd give it a shot.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:21 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:42 pm
Posts: 2360
Location: Windsor Ontario Canada
First name: Fred
Last Name: Tellier
City: Windsor
State: Ontario
Zip/Postal Code: N8T2C6
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Quote:
I built a mold with a lip on the outside for the freshly bent side to be clamped to while it cools and dries. I don't know if it was really necessary or not, but I saw someone else using something similar and figured I'd give it a shot.


Just leave the side in the bender until it reaches room temperature.

Fred

_________________
Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 38 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com