Official Luthiers Forum!

One of my collegue just received an order from Allied Lutherie... It was the first time I was ordering there (and will be the last one I think...) So, here's the problem.

He ordered 18 tops (6WRD, 6 Sitka, 6 Engleman)

2-3 or the WRD were really TOO SMALL and, more, cracked on both sides of both piece of the sets! Some were already really, really too thin.
Sitka were OKAY, but some at big defaults, some cracks.
Some Engleman were really but really thin, nothing to do whit them, except put 2 of them with nomex between (BTW, anybody tryed this out?). And some other englemen were OK with the look, but so flexible, but SO FLEXIBLE. It something I've never seen.

I Always thought Allied was a great retailer... not sure now...

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Francis Richer, Montréal
Les Guitares F&M Guitars

Take it up with Allied. They are in business for a reason. I would HOPE that they will make it right.

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Don't confront me with my failures--I have not forgotten them.

Allied Lutherie is an excellent company and they stand behind their products. Just have your friend give them a call and I'm sure they will take care of him. My buying experiences from them have always been exemplary.

Kind Regards,
Simon

I have used Allied for a LONG time and got a lot of stuff from them. I'm sure Todd will make it right if you give him a chance.

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

I think you will find you are on thin ice with this type of post. Especially if you are reporting about a friend and not a direct experience. You need to contact Allied and take it up with them. Or better yet have your friend do it as it was his order. Maybe a misunderstanding, maybe damage during shipping, who knows. You need to talk to Allied first before condemning on the net.
Link

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

Francis,

Todd (the owner) has been in this business for a VERY long time. He is a SUPER guy to deal with and he stands by his products and probably knows guitar wood like nobody else! I am certain that there are few on this planet that have held as many different sets of wood as Todd has. So, please do call Allied, tell them your concerns and you will be dealt with.

Shane

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Canada

Yep... Those guys have been in business for a long time selling top quality stuff... Your friend needs to go there first.

The Shipper may have wrecked the shipment... Maybe someone set a 600 lb Engine Block on top of it in the UPS truck... Maybe it fell out during shipment and got run over... Who knows.

Then... Are you really sure of what your friend bought?

If you contact folks like Allied looking for "Student" grade material or Mismatch/Orphan/Low grade Discount material -- they do have it available.... but you do get what you pay for.... Say a good D-size top with a big crack down the middle of 1-half... or pin knots or sap pockets that will have to be cut down for an O or a Size 2 or something.... or an un-matched but close top... or big knot shadow... They end up with some of that sort of stuff occasionally... and do sell it at a deep discount...

For example, I have bought several $7.00 Extra-low grade tops from a couple different suppliers.... Some were great, Some were firewood... Some would be fine on Small instruments... and some would need to be cut and re-jointed to make 4-piece tops, etc.... but I do believe I got better than I paid for.... even though I will end up scrapping a couple of these...

Then... Finally.... Defects that would end up outside the Guitar outline or inside the soundhole don't necessarily downgrade a set... If a top set is 9" wide and 1-edge has some cracks in its 1st 1/2".... it is still plenty wide for anything up to 17" wide -- which is Dread+ width... Maybe there is a knot outside the waist... It sure looks ugly before you trim the top to the body... but it is all gone once you joint the top, cut the soundhole, and then finally glue it on and cut it flush to the sides....

Thanks

John

I'm going to pile on to all that has been said so far. Todd is a great guy and you have to go there first instead of questioning his integrity on the OLF.

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Ken Franklin
clumsy yet persistent
https://www.kenfranklinukulele.com

I also need to jump on the band wagon here, Todd has been supplying wood to the luthier community and factories for like 30 years or something like that. Maybe a bad day, new help, I dunno, but it can happen to us all every once in while.

I've always received great service and wood from Allied. I'd really encourage you to give them a chance to make it right, at least call and talk with them about it before airing your complaint, I'm pretty confident you'll be a happy luthier when it's all done.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

I definitely agree that the poster should contact Allied, but also thank him for posting what he did. If all we get are the airy fairy posts about our vendors, when things like this do happen (rarely), some without the experience under the belt that the majority posting in the thread do, they might think it's normal, or at best, not know how to go about fixing it. Balanced reviews are appropriate.

I have had no issue with Allied in the past either. That said we can all make a mistake so it is only reasonable to give them a chance to sort out any problem via direct contact BEFORE you sling off at them in public. Doing that won't get you anywhere accept on a vendors 'pest' list.

If you really have such issues then i am sorry for you but am confident you will have them sorted if you use the appropriate channel, but i must say that i am always a little suspicious of topics such as this one. Soo many things wrong in a single order from a vendor with such a fine track record does not seem right and sometimes it is true to say that the customer just can't be satisfied. What do they call it when through preconceived ideas one goes looking for an outcome and is all but guaranteed to find it no matter the sample? Positive bias i believe.

Cheers

Kim

Global warming I think! Sorry- couldn't resist, news of the past week and all

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

James-
I agree- it's not necessary to say 'only good things' about suppliers online, though I've had very few problems with 'luthierie' suppliers. As everybody has mentioned the supplier should be given a chance to remedy the problem before passing judgement.
It is really difficult to judge the quality of the tops that Francis (Ti-Roux) describes without some-
a)measurements of actual thickness
b) pictures with perhaps a body template overlaid and defects marked in pencil or chalk.
c) specification of the grade of tops ordered & price paid
(I notice on their webpage that Allied has a big description of the differences between 'Master', AAA,AA,A tops, but that in the pricelist they are rated as 'standard', 'good', 'fine' or 'best' with the additional 'Export grade- Inquire'....quite confusing.)

Also, a balanced review would be better posted after contacting Allied and seeing their response- whether they settle in cash, or send replacement tops, etc. My experience with online vendors is that when I've had a problem (very seldom), providing a lot of documentation (measurements, pics) seems to make communication much easier.

I've only bought fingerboards and b+s sets from Allied and have been pleasantly surprised by the (good) quality of the wood I got. I'd be surprised if they shipped split tops, and as others have mentioned I would suspect shipper damage for that.

Cheers
John

I think that it is unfair and not right to post a topic like this without first giving Allied a chance to make your "friend" happy.

Ok, sorry guys, I didn't want to drop Allied (also, my english is bad and something it get out a little crapy.. ). I was just wondering.. 'cause I've always heard great things about Allied. So I wanted to know can something like this happen? Really, I didn't want to drop anybody, i'm just trying to be fixed on a good wood provider for my future. And, obviously, he will call them, that's the first thing i suggested to him when I saw his wood.

Francis

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Francis Richer, Montréal
Les Guitares F&M Guitars

Be careful. When I attempted to air my problems concerning a tonewood merchant's products here I got nasty email and at least one supplier (not the one I had problems with) has since refused to do business with me.....
I have dealt with Todd since the 1980's. I am sure Allied will make it right if your friend is unhappy with his order.

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It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

Mea Coulpa. And then please delete this topic.

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Francis Richer, Montréal
Les Guitares F&M Guitars

Just for clarity how thin is too thin I have bought a lot of wood through Allied. I never got a top set that was less than.190 thick unless I asked to the wood to be thickness sanded prior to shipping. Hardwoods pretty much the same. It is pretty typical of any tonewood dealer to resaw at roughly .196" [5mm] thick and sticker for a given period of time.

I don't mean to defame or claim that you are not honest with this post but no mater what tonewood dealer it is hard to conceive of receiving tops or backs that were to thin.

This just post just seems to have the feel of something being misunderstood here

I know, and that's one reason why it really surprised me... It was around 3mm. But that was only for few ones. The other ones were really great, but i'll say that about 25% of the batch was bit weird. I'm sure they'll refound him or give him back some other tops, but I was just wondering why stuff like this can be shipped? What is the shipping process, are they several people working on the orders? For the ones who were cracked, is it possible that's a result of bad wrapping or bad post handling? Really, I just want to understand how the process work... I've not done many many orders yet, i'm not really familiar whit that. And fortunately, from my sides, all my orders were awesomely perfect. So, I was just surprised.

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Francis Richer, Montréal
Les Guitares F&M Guitars

3mm is thin unless thickness sanding was requested at 3mm. Still have him get in touch with customer service. I promise they will make it right. The only thing that can come to mind for me on this was if these tops were advertised as being seconds or such and sold at a discounted price but I would expect that the specs would have been listed.

But non of this matters. They will make it right.

I have purchased several thousand dollars worth of tonewoods from one of the more reliable vendors. When I started having problems (slow shipments), I emailed him and asked what was going on. He is slammed with orders and low on help. But he appologized and made it right. The first thing to do when you have a problem with a vendor, is contact them. They are all hard working folks, just like us, and they always make it right. If you have a case of a bad shipment, and they refuse to make it right, then you should post that, along with pictures, etc. so others can take note. From what I see on the thread, Todd is quite an exemplary supplier and your friend should have to problem resolving this. Please have your friend post the outcome on the forum after he calls Todd. I think I will go online now and see what Allied has to offer. Sounds like a great place to shop.
Mike R

John, I completely agree, and I think your procedural recommendation is a good one. I've had great experiences with most vendors, but not all. The hope for my post (which you did a better job of communicating) was that we be open to posters when they have something neutral or negative to say as well.

I'm with the gang that says you should have first contacted Todd and his crew at Allied, and should have given them a chance to make it right. Then again, the "too thin" and "too flexible" may be in the eye of the beholder, so some of this may be a judgment call where your opinions differ. Even then, I'll bet a large pile of mashed potatoes (now remember, I'm Irish, and that's like an Englishman betting the Queen's Crown Jewels!), that Allied would have completed the deal to your satisfaction or would have refunded your money.

I'm confident they would not have knowingly sent cracked tops. My guess is that they cracked in shipment or upon being unboxed in a drastically different relative humidity.

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

Ti-Roux-

I have ordered 15+ times from Todd at Allied and never had one problem. I ordered one top that I ended up not liking after handling it and Todd went out of his way to make me happy. Have no fears ordering from him or the rest of the sponsors - I have used about half of them and they are all stand up business people.

So, no worries, Todd should take care of your friend.

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John Lewis
Wannabe builder owned by 2 crazy dachshunds

not sure I can add to whats been said but ill try, Todd and Mary are class acts and the will make it right.
No need in going public with it, they are good people and run a top notch business.
Your best course of action is to call Todd, hes great to talk to any ways and let him know. He will make it right.

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