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Hey guys,

I have been researching guitar making for over a year now. I have have read guitarmaking tradition and technology, and have watched countless hours of guitar building videos on youtube( you can find anything on there these days). I am ready to get started and plan to follow the guitar making book for my first build but I am not certain what tools to get. I have a table saw, router, band saw, drill press etc. but I do not have very good hand tools.

Finally the question. What hand tools would you guys reconmend for a starting builder with a limited budget? I am focused on finding a few chisels, rasps, scraper, hand planes, and files.

What hand tools/specialty tools could you guys not go without?

That is a great start. Good sharpening equipment and some time learning to do it right are the only things missing. I preach a bit about tool sharpening because of all the mistakes I have made, trying to forces a dull tool to do a job a sharp one would laugh at. Much cussing and screaming at ruined projects from that.

-Matthew

I would add a good japanese saw to your list. The rest is there.

I find that carving the neck with a well-sharpened spokeshave is one of the most enjoyable steps in building a guitar. You can do that with a rasp of course, but I prefer the spokeshave.

Christian

I would only add a couple cabinet scrapers (flat and a curved) to the list. Routing your binding channels without a tilt base might make things a bit tough ( I did purchase a Dewalt laminate trimmer w/option tilt base) after unsuccessfully attempting it with a large Portercable router.
If....you purchase a kit with prebent sides, pre semithickness back and sides and preslotted fretboard, you will get a feel for a build and can assess your potential necessary tool options for your next build. These tools add up...so a KIT is a good way to feel your way through your first build process before spending a lot of money. I assume you are building an acoustic of some kind.

Kent Bailey

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a 3 pack of chisles = $10
a medium plane (6") = $10
a good rabbiting set for your router (the bindings are a pain in the ass to cut by hand) = never cheep
(also modify your router, as cumpiano explains, into a circle cutter)
a good rasp, and needle files (for shaping the neck) = under $10
exacto razor saw = $2
tapered drill bit = $1 (if you are using bridge pins, if you use a regular bit the pins will shoot out everytime you take it outside)
some coping saw blades =$1 (you will need these to cut relief in the bridge plate)
Make some cam clamps to glue on the bridge =$10 (look online for plans)
about 100 clothes pins (lee valley tools makes a heavy duty pin that works great for kerfing, but you can use the cheeper ones)
A buffer attachment for a drill =$5 (however i would spend the $25 on a car buffer just to make life easier)
A dye to thread the truss rod = under $5
a butane torch and pipe =$5 (if your going to bend the sides)
a hammer (i put a rubber mallet on the bench set the neck on it,to cushin the blow, then tap in the frets with a regular ball hammer)
a level at least 2 feet long with sand paper glued to it =$5 (to level your frets)
OOO steel wool (to shine up your frets)
If you finish it with poly or laquer i use automotive rubbing compounds by 3M, (good enough for a custom Harley, good enough for me)
For under $100 you will be well on your way. keep a list of problems or defects that you encounter along the way then, after your done with the first one, sit down with that list and think about if another tool or jig would help make life easier.
Some advice (take it or leave it)
The hardest part of your first build is getting started, so stop thinking about it and get into the shop.

_________________
Bring me a sane man, and I will cure him.

First- Matthew is absolutely correct about the sharpening equipment and learning how to use it. If you have a decent stone and strop you can make even lesser quality edge tools work, though you will have to sharpen them a lot more often.

eBay can be a minefield for the inexperienced - often the plane irons and chisels are pitted or have been ground down so much that they may need re-hardening and tempering. Patrick at http://www.supertool.com/ is often recommended for used planes. I've dealt with Bob Kaune http://www.antique-used-tools.com/ in the past and been very satisfied. Be sure you email either of these folks and specify that you are looking for working tools, not collectibles. They may have unlisted stuff that will work well for you.
Todd's list is excellent- as he mentions, you may be able to find cheaper but serviceable alternatives.
For instance, for squares - a 4" engineers square http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32601&cat=1,42936,42941 and 2-3 plastic drafting triangles -from Staples or drafting supply house (which I find useful for top layout and plans) will do the trick.

Buying a 'kit' of some kind would be my recommendation. Thicknessing sides by hand can be tricky. (I'd invest in a Wagner Safety Planer for this job alone, if you are not getting pre-thicknessed sides) Side bending by hand on a pipe can be frustrating, especially if you don't have a teacher at your elbow.

A 3" drum sander for your drill press is useful. You can make simple jigs for thicknessing, shaping bridges, etc and you can also do some neck shaping with the sander and a half-round Surform or Microplane if a good rasp http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=30288&cat=1,42524 is not in your budget. I've never had any success with cheaper rasps. For small jobs, sanding sticks will do in many cases.

Getting more than one book on building is a 'must' IMO, though with all the resources on the web this is not such a priority as 20 years ago. Some of the older books like Sloane and David Russell Young have good ideas for the less 'industrial' builder. Abebooks.com is one place to find used books, though many are in reprint.

And- get started! You can improvise or buy tools as you go along. Though some very talented builders seem to produce exceptional guitars from #1, for me it was definitely a matter of : "Well on the next one, I'll do that step better...." Most folks will be amazed that you made anything with your hands; only you will see the errors.

Cheers
John

I will add the following:
1 Nicholson #50 Cabinetmaker's rasp and a good unvarnished wooden Handle
1 Set of Durablocks sanding blocks... Good sanding blocks turn a horrible job into a less horrible job.
As many clamps as you can afford, especially the 8" reach cam clamps...

Be very careful of the Delusion of "Well, I am different... I won't possibly spend *THAT* much if I look around..." Yeah... we all said that exact same thing too.... and we learned that the list is the list.... and they aren't kidding when they call it "The Bare Minimum!" Expect your tool pile to exponentially grow....

On buying Used:
The reality is that some of the stuff on Todd's list or the list in the Cumpiano book can be bought used... Some of it is better bought new. For example... A dull old used hand saw is worse than useless.. The cuts wander and run off-track and take too much pressure and hang and tear out badly and ruin your day... In theory.... they *can* be sharpened (In the same sense that Man *Can* Climb Mt Everest...), but this takes LOTS of practice and experience and more expensive tools and even more time.... and a brandy-new pull saw from Home Depot runs $22.00.

On the other hand, Good Used Chisels and Planes are often sold and Used and resold again after years of use... and the original blade lasts through 3 or 4 generations of woodworkers... Buy your 1st round of these through a reputable dealer as listed above to avoid many of the costly pitfalls of Collecting Old Rust!

Then... you will need Sharpening equipment of some sort or another. Dull planes and chisels don't do anything but ruin wood and your day as well.... and that adds more $$$ to your list... The cheap whetstones that work so well on pocket knives are too narrow for Plane Irons (And usually cupped from use) -- so maybe you go after a sandpaper method or something to get you going..

Thanks

John

Thanks to everyone for your help.

I have used many forums in the past and it is always interested to see what kind of help I will get on a first post like mine. My christmas list just got a little longer but hopefully with tools some wood will be under the tree this year.

As far as sharpening of tools I have an electric tool sharpener and have been planing to get some japanese water stones for the kitchen knives so that should be covered. I have been looking at the saftey planer and think that might be a good tool to get if I dont go with a kit.

Thanks again and I will keep you guys up to date when the build begins.

if you buy a kit your looking at spending around $450.
if you just pull out the parts list and shop around you can get that price under $200, including shipping. don't spend top $ on your first guitar or else your stress level is going to be threw the roof. trust me you will love that guitar no matter what its made of.
bending a side on a pipe isn't as hard a some make it sound, it just takes alot of time, and for the $ you save you could buy a couple of sides just in case things dont go right.
if your worried about thickness, just stop by the local cabinet maker and drop them $10 to send it threw their thickness sander.

_________________
Bring me a sane man, and I will cure him.

My opinion -- it's not difficult, at all. My very first attempts at sharpening a rip saw and a crosscut saw were both successful. It honestly took me longer to get the hang of sharpening plane irons... so there's no reason to be frightened of saw sharpening. It's not a black art.

Handy links: Saw Sharpening, a Beginner's Primer
and other handsaw articles from the same site

It's true that you need some equipment for this. Much if it's readily available & probably already in your shop (triangular files, protractor, bench stone) but saw vises probably have to be cobbled together or hunted down.

But good old cast iron saw vises are reasonably plentiful in the wild at estate & garage sales... which, yeah, I know, takes away from potential shop time. Along with certain other old tools, some saws are highly collectible, so I'm partially repaid for my time by selling the desirable stuff when it turns up.

(Above paragraph does not apply if you live in a warm, humid climate. There will be no old tools in usable condition.)

True, saw sharpening is another maintenance chore, and the initial retoothing/rehabilitation is necessarily more time-consuming than a quick touchup, so time is a factor to consider. But even touch-ups aren't required all that often - it's not like sharpening a plane or a chisel.

Notes on saws and chisels: Japanese saws and chisels are often recommended, but the English style saws and chisels from any number of vendors are every bit as good. Pulling a saw does not work for everyone...try both at a local Woodcraft or a woodworking show before you decide. Cheap Japanese saws are not quite as terrible as cheap Western saws, but the Zona saws found at any hobby shop are standouts, and in the larger sizes will handle almost anything a dedicated dovetail saw or dozuki will handle. Polar opposite to cheap saws are cheap chisels...cheap Japanese chisels are worse than cheap Western tools...plan on spending double what an acceptable Western chisel would cost to get an acceptable Japanese bench or butt chisels...do some reading on seating the ring and on tuning.[/quote" but the English style saws and chisels from any number of vendors are every bit as good.."

Beg to differ.. show me a Western saw with which one can do fine crosscutting, flip it over and
resaw a 7" wide board.. and costs less than $35. Describing inexpensive J-saws as "less terrible"
is simply pejorative. Makoto Imai does pretty well with them, if endorsements matter.

The little Zonas are good for what they are- but the set v tooth count is not generally well chosen, the gullets
are small, teeth are soft and stamped-out, not sharp. Not unexpected given the price- but a better-cutting
J-saw is the same price and impulse-hardened to boot.

re chisels: curious how it was determined that an inexpensive J-chisel is "worse" that an Irwin (which comes
from China btw). I like the Imai/Fujihiro chisels, at about $50 for a 12mm/ 1/2", made by a particular man
(Chuttaro Imai), high carbon steel. Interesting that in a recent FWW test (not that I put much stock in
those) the Lie-Nielsen chisel at the same or higher price, A2/Cryo steel et al, was only middle of the pack in edge
holding.. A fellow on WoodCentral did a neat test awhile back, chopping Cocobolo with a garden-variety Imai.
Worth checking out the results.

Here is a list of items I am looking to purchase. Let me know what you think and what you would do differently. I have a good tool sharpener and a thickness sander. I have a lot of routers and router bits.

I have about $200.00 to spend on tools right now and about another $200.00 for my first build
NIChelson 50 CABINET RASP #50 SMOOTH (do i need the #49 too)
Lie-Nielsen® Scraper Set
PFEIL "Swiss Made" 2-3/8" x 1/2" Blade - Brienz Carver's Knife
Saw, Model Makers Razor woodcraft 126820
PFEIL "Swiss Made" Chisel, 1/2", 12mm
PFEIL "Swiss Made" Chisel, 1/4", 6mm
4 inch eng square
exacto knife
needle file set
For jap pull saw is there a brand, type, size you guys recommend
I am still undecided on the timming plane and jack plane (cost seems to be getting in the way)

let me know what you think
also what is a wheel marker guage used for. prob dumb question.

On the rasps...
The #50 is the one you need. The #49 is more coarse -- not as well suited for the work we do... It would be pretty handy if you were doing a bunch of work roughing in Spruce or maybe Marble or maybe on horse hooves... Be sure you also buy an unvarnished Wooden handle for it.

I might personally skip on the carving knife and see if you can find yourself a used but rehabbed #60 Stanley block plane from one of the used vendors listed above. If you are doing a Serviced Kit, skip the Jack plane until budget allows.

On the chisels, I found Cumpiano's recommendation of a 1" wide chisel + a 1/4" wide chisel was a really good starting point. Pfeil is a fine choice. Narex and Twin Cherries also make fine products that are reasonably available... There are also others that are really nice too.. but they get pricey in a hurry... like Lie Nielsen, Blue Spruce, Ashton, Sorby, etc....

BUT... Sharpening equipment and practice really is more important than your choice of Chisel brands at this point... A $5.00 Stanley butt chisel that you keep Razor Sharp will outperform a Fine English Witherby Paring chisel with a dull edge...

Be sure you save money for Sharpening equipment... You won't believe how much money you can sink into it before you turn around... You can do an excellent job starting out with sandpaper and plate glass or a granite countertop off-cut -- using grits that span 400-2,000 grit. (Google "Crazy Sharp System"). I also really like a Strop charged with Flexcut Gold for touching up edges during work.

If you haven't dealt with sharpening Chisels and plane irons... I recommend seeking out a class at your local Woodworking store (Like Woodcraft or Rockler) or woodworking club. Poor sharpening techniques turn a 5-minute job into an hour job that ends in frustration and dull edges...

For saws.... I built my 1st Scratch guitar and retopped a 2nd with a Vaughn Bear Saw I bought at Lowes. It cost around $20.00... I have since dulled that blade and bought a 2nd. The key of what you need is a saw that tracks straight and true when you do your part.... You would be surprised how well a cheap New and Sharp Stanley board saw will work once you get the hang of using hand saws... but expect to ruin your 1st hand saw figuring that stuff out....

Thanks

John

Yep, that's the one.. Scary sharp system.

Works great... Cost is pretty managable...

I used a piece of 2" angle aluminum and some little bitty C-clamps as my "Sharpening Jig"

Thanks

John

for japanese saws I am looking at a
Dozuki "Z" 26 tpi .012 thick blade $46.00 from woodcraft
Takumi 26 TPI, .015" kerf $67.00 from WC
Ryoba - Fine Cut 17 TPI cross cut and graduated rip, .025" kerf $85.00
If I get the ryoba I can use that for fretting correct, or do I need a .023 kerf (I know I can buy different sized fret wire but my understanding is standard is .023 kerf.)