Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Tue Jul 22, 2025 2:36 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:31 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:04 am
Posts: 313
Location: United States
First name: Paul
Last Name: Bordeaux
City: Massena
State: New York
Zip/Postal Code: 13662
Country: US
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
Guys,

Just got an e mail on this about illegal madagascar rosewood....
anyone know someone there for an inside scoop...

Paul

_________________
Paul Bordeaux
http://www.bordeauxinlay.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:11 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:21 am
Posts: 4915
Location: Central PA
First name: john
Last Name: hall
City: Hegins
State: pa
Zip/Postal Code: 17938
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
heard the Peavy is looking into buying out Gibson . Did anyone else hear about this ?-

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:48 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:11 pm
Posts: 2390
Location: Spokane, Washington
First name: Pat
Last Name: Foster
Country: USA
Focus: Build
There are several articles around the web about it. Seems no charges have been filed, but there is an investigation going on, following a raid at Gibson, when Feds seized computers, wood, and guitars. The CEO of Gibson is on the board of an environmental group and he's offered to step down to avoid conflict of interest.

Pat

_________________
formerly known around here as burbank
_________________

http://www.patfosterguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:23 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:31 pm
Posts: 510
Location: Gaithersburg MD
First name: Erik
Last Name: Hauri
State: Maryland
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Todd Stock wrote:
Lots of smoke and no fire...


...unless they decide to torch all that Mad Rose... eek

_________________
The member formerly known as erikbojerik....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:23 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:34 am
Posts: 3081
Conflict of interest... laughing6-hehe
Where else would a CEO sit if he wanted to "import" a little RW from Germany?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:44 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:07 am
Posts: 280
Location: United States
I wonder if any of the other big makers are sweating a bit at this point.

Interesting week in history-Portland opens first bud bar, Feds raid guitar plant . idunno

_________________
It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:59 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:11 pm
Posts: 164
First name: Matt
Last Name: Rispoli
State: NJ
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
eek It will be interesting to hear gibsons side of the story. I wonder if the will go with the old "I've never seen that before in my life. I dont know where it came from."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:47 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 9:02 am
Posts: 2351
Location: Canada
First name: Bob
Last Name: Garrish
City: Toronto
State: Ontario
Country: Canada
Status: Professional
bluescreek wrote:
heard the Peavy is looking into buying out Gibson . Did anyone else hear about this ?-


Yep, though not a whole lot more than that. Maybe they'll restructure it to include a QC department?

_________________
Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:33 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:12 pm
Posts: 6994
First name: Mike
Last Name: O'Melia
City: Huntsville
State: Alabama
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
There is (or was) illegal wood in that plant. Has to be. Investigators had to provided significant evidence to get the raid approved. The question is, is the wood locatable (does legitimate paperwork exist)

Glad LP not around to see this.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:00 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:44 pm
Posts: 1105
Location: Crownsville, MD
First name: Trevor
Last Name: Lewis
City: Crownsville
State: MD
Zip/Postal Code: 21032
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Are they really using that much Mad. RW? I didn't think there was that great of a supply of the stuff for a factory to have enough to get into trouble.

_________________
http://www.PeakeGuitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:03 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:43 pm
Posts: 774
Location: Philadelphia, USA
First name: Michael
Last Name: Shaw
City: Philadelphia
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
I heard Peavey burns Brazilian rosewood to power their generators just to run their CNC machines :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:07 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:07 am
Posts: 280
Location: United States
Quote:
our friend can count on an $8K-$10K legal bill


Try $50-$75K if it were to be contested. Any decent lawyer (oxymoron?) nowadays charges >$200/hr, You will get a bill for $150 if you email them a "yes or no" question. We are talking forensics and expert wittneses as well. You would be looking at 2-3 years before it came before a jury.
Doubt they will come after the little guy. though. At least in medicine, if you try to import a prescription drug (in non-saleable quantities), all they do is confisgate it and send you a letter. Patients have shown me these - they say what to do if you contest it, and if not you stuff is gone.... [xx(]

_________________
It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:24 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:15 pm
Posts: 475
Location: Santa Barbara, Ca
First name: John "jd"
City: Santa Barbara
State: Ca
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Jon L. Nixon wrote:
I wonder if any of the other big makers are sweating a bit at this point.


It appears that perhaps Martin is:

http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.y ... uilds.html

-jd


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:50 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:55 am
Posts: 1392
Location: United States
First name: James
Last Name: Bolan
City: Nashville
State: Tennessee
Country: USA
It seems all the rules and regs just make things worse and for sure more expensive.I agree with Todd about the gov.
James

_________________
James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:00 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:14 am
Posts: 819
First name: Tim
Last Name: Lynch
City: Santa Cruz
Zip/Postal Code: 95060
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
From what I have read this is not a CITES issue but rather an issue with the Lacey Act, which is more about the paper trail. Here is a link to a 2 page article where SCGCs R.H. is quoted.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20091 ... ed+by+feds


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:39 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:16 pm
Posts: 718
Looking for illegal wood, but not ILLEGAL LABOR, in a 15% unemployment + recession? Get on the phone to your congressman!

Ive heard that deforestation is slowing because of the bad economy, so there is at least some releif on the Amazon, and I suppose elsewhere. OF course, if China gets that hippie/acoustic guitar bug, all will be lost 5x as fast.

_________________
Here is what a Parlor Guitar is for!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEa8PkjO6_I


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:19 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:10 pm
Posts: 2764
First name: Tom
Last Name: West
State: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I understand from the UMGF that Martin has about 14000 sets of Madagascar RW and has since stopped taking orders for guitars using Madagascar.Hope they get this straighten out for Gibson's sake and also for the rest of us or we may all end up building maple and oak guitars. Not that maple and oak are not ok but we have been spoiled by all the beautiful wood that is available especially through some of the venders here at the OLF. Lets hope.
Tom

_________________
A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:36 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:07 am
Posts: 280
Location: United States
I had an interesting talk with Gulab Gidwani, owner of Exotic Woods, after his ASIA talk this spring. He was actually in Madagascar at the time of the most recent governmental coup. He basically said the place was virtually lawless and anyone who had the resources to cut and export logs could freely do so.
He also said that EIRW is being responsibly harvested under careful control of the Indian government, and is in no danger of going the way BRW did.
That's what he said......

_________________
It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:06 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:50 pm
Posts: 3933
Location: United States
As Todd says, this is a complicated issue that inevitably gets mixed up with politics. Jon Nixon said a mouthful, though, when he pointed out the issue of 'lawlessness' in Madagascar. The real underlying issue is a 'tragedy of the commons'. Where there is no effective control over the resource, and there are poor people who need to eat, what would you expect to see? The people doing the cutting most likely realize that they're depleting the forest, but what's that when your kids are hungry? It might be different if the choice came down to whether you cut the tree or it stayed there: then you might look for some other work. But when you know it's going to get cut anyway, why shouldn't it be you who gets to eat, rather than somebody else? The poeple on the ground know that they are making bad choices, but they're the only possible choices in many cases.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 37 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com