Official Luthiers Forum!

Ok, The book said .085" but I had a bit of brain slippage and ended up with .070" on my east indian R/W sides. Actually, what happened was I figured if I slowed my drum sander conveyor speed real slow, I would get a very nice smooth finish. Stoopid. My question is now what do I do?
here are some choices I thought of, what do you think?
1. Keep going like it never really happened (this one scares me).
2. Throw them away and start over. (What will I tell my wife, this scares me even more).
3. Use them for headplates, end wedge, bridge plates, etc.

Thanks,
Rene

What size of a guitar is it. I think you are just fine for a 00 or classical. Might be OK for OM too. It will be important that you don't scorch the wood, and don't get much rippling. Sanding all this this will make them even thinner in the end.

_________________
Build log

You can survive with .07 sides. I do it all the time in the cutout area. You could also laminate a matrix like bias tape to the inside of the sides to stiffen them. though that will add a good bit of weight. While I do not like to, I have routed the binding ledge slightly into my linings. That is the biggest issue the .07 sides cause but still not the end of the world. If you elect to use these sides I would double up on the number of side braces used.

Rene,

EIRW at .070 is fine. Just take care in the bending process that you don't get any ripples or other irregularities that need to be sanded out. I've seen many vintage era guitars with sides in the .060-.070 range that were still perfectly fine after many years of use.

_________________
Jimmy Caldwell
http://www.caldwellguitars.com

To avoid rippling, avoid too much water. As a matter of fact bend them dry. At 0.07 IRW is simply too easy, although bending 0.06 is even easier!

_________________
Build log

0.070 is a little thin, but not necessarily too thin. What size guitbox are you building?

Rene;
laminate them .
Bend them & then glue another wood on the inside of them.
That way you'll get a rigid set of sides and will not worry so much !
Plus sanding them level will not thin then to much !

Mike

_________________
Mike Collins

To make you feel a bit better... I recently did a repair on an EIR Martin Dred. It had fallen & poked a hole through the bass side just below the waist.
When I was assembling the little pieces, to glue them back in place, I measured the side thickness... .041". And that includes the thickness of the finish!
Thinner sides should bend easier with less cupping. Your sides will probably NEED less sanding than usual.
Good luck... Worst case scenario, you need a new set of sides. EIR is relatively inexpensive & easily found. Send pics to the supplier & try for a good colour match. I'll bet it doesn't come to that, though.

Thank you all,
That's a great relief to hear that my sides are not toast.
I'm building an OM from the Scott Antes plan.
Thanks again,
Rene

What? Really? Is this a recent model? I wonder if Martin is finding ways to extend their wood supply. But building them more fragile seems like it might come back to bite them.

Mike

Take the antes plan and changed a few things, The braces are way overdone. You can use a 1/4 brace to 5/16 do not make them as thick as the plan. The location is close so that will be ok. The back braces are ok.

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

John,
Yes, I read that somewhere and I will do as you suggest. thanks for reminding me.

Rene

Rene,
I`ve made three of these from the Antes plan, and have found that the advice given on this forum runs pretty true.
The best I have built yet has sides milled at .070", along with .030" side supports.
I also cut down on other dimensions such as top bracing, and back thickness.
BTW, are you sure that you`re building an OM or 000?
The plan I have is for the Auditorium Size, Drawing No. AGP-07 Auditorium Size.
24.9" scale/14th fret join would apply to 000, IIRC. There`s a pretty good thread on this in the archives.
Either way, don`t despair.
As far as the Antes plan goes, buliding lighter seems to work better.
From what I`m gathering thus far, he`s giving you the general idea and measurements needed to get you going.
I`m pretty sure that he is a fine mechanical draftsman and does his job well, but finds he needs to keep out of the technical nature that we search for. Posterity seems to be his venue. Nothing wrong with that.
The fret scale is right on.
I really love the way my lightest guitar (also my everyday instrument, to keep me from getting spoiled by my electric) sounds, and it weighs quite a bit less, too.
Don`t give up the ship.
Coe Franklin

_________________
Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

Martin has produced lots of guitars with thin sides. Don't think it's intentional but rather happens while being sanded after assembly of the box. It's certainly not to save money.

_________________
A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

.050" to .060" is not unusual on many Martin guitars.....and that's on Dreadnought models, too.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

I think by extending, I meant they might have been using sophisticated resaw cuts to get the pieces down to 1/8" or less... then flattening and normal scraping and sanding would take it further.

To start off with a .1 or .09 side and then sand down to .05 or .04 seems like a lot of sanding. Maybe its because they use machines to do it.

Mike

Coe,
I'm using the AGP-14 ("similar to orchestra model") plan from LMI.

Rene

Rene,
I built a deadnought from Scott Antes plans and discovered too late that tuner holes 2 and 5 were positioned too close to the edge causing those strings to rub on 1 and 6 tuning pegs as they fed thru the nut.

Be sure to inspect that closely on the OM plan.

Hutch

_________________
"After forty-nine years of violin building, I have decided that the search for a varnish is similar to the fox hunt. The fun is in the hunt."
Jack Batts Maker and Repairer of Fine Violins

Thanks for the heads-up Hutch, I will look at that. Also, William C. has a neck tutorial on his Koa Build page that deals with that by having a couple of tuner holes slightly inboard or outboard of the normal straight line placement. I might try that.

Rene

Around .070" is where I thickness heavy rosewoods (HRW, cocobolo etc.) before bending.
As many others have noted it will be fine. EIR bends very well, holds its shape and is probably one of the most stable tonewoods.

_________________
Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Mike,

You're right in saying that Martin uses machines to sand their woods down to the
final desired thickness dimensions, but they use no sophisticated resaw techniques
or anything different from what is being used by any of the resaw guys who sponsor
here at the OLF.

They use huge TimeSaver sanders and can remove .020" to .030" in a single pass
if they're being aggressive with the wood and depending on the species. When you're
pushing out the better part of 1000 guitars in a day, there's no time for additional
time for passes through the machine or babying it in to that final thickness.

I bought a 24 inch TimeSaver sander from Martin back in 1992 and have been running
it in my bulk cut room since. Three machines sit for much of the time and run only four
or five times a year for me and this is one of them. It's fast and very powerful, but not
nearly as fast as the larger, more powerful units they're using in Nazareth now.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars