Official Luthiers Forum!

I am not a machinist and have vever had machist training. My dad was and always taught me never to wear gloves operating machinery. This is especially true with a drill press where the spinning chuck/bit can grab your glove and twist your arm up around the bit or pull a finger(s) off (my brother was working beside a young man who lost a finger wearing gloves operating a drill).

So should one wear gloves while operating a table saw? I don't know the answer to that. I would have had less of an injury if I had been wearing gloves......but I can't say it wouldn't be a safety issue in other situations. Maybe one of you guys can shed some light if/where its appropriate to use gloves while operating machinery.

_________________
Formerly known as Adaboy.......

NEVER WEAR GLOVES WHILE WORKING ON A MACHINE!

I use two of 'The Gripper's. They're great for dimensioning small stock on a table saw.

http://www.microjig.com/products/grr-ripper/index.shtml

Having been trained in tool safety ,for your own good ,do not use gloves on a table saw or band saw . The gloves can pull your hand into the blades. On a drill press gloves are acceptable .

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Just one thing to add: Rehearse your cuts. For a table saw if your hand comes within 3" of the blade, during the rehearsal, you need to rethink your cut.

On the glove issue: Our shop teacher's safety rule was never wear gloves in the shop. He wasn't a guitarist and may not have worked with the splinters of Wenge. Also, work gloves have improved considerable since I was in wood shop in high school.

Danny R. Little

Oh, one more thing from my old shop teacher: Never wear rings, watches, jewelry. He would smack you with a dowel rod if he caught you disobeying any "never" rule. He would do this while you were working on any piece of dangerous equipment, and would usually sneak up on you to do so. Somewhat a contradiction of safety reinforcement.


Danny R. Little

Back to the OP's original question - working with small parts:

- I keep a Freud Diablo 7 1/4" blade on my 10" sized table saw. Cuts clean, smaller kerf and less likely to kick back. Better for small parts. If I need to cut something big I change blades. I have shopmade push handles in the shape of an L with a hook on the bottom. I run them through with the stock and just make another when they get too cut up.

- When thicknessing small parts like saddles, nuts or bridges I use a Luthiers Friend.

- Figure out a way to clamp it in something.

- Glue it to something or stick it with double-stick tape.

- leave extra material on the piece so it can be clamped, grabbed with vice grips or whatever. The extra material should be in a place where it can easily and safely be cut off and the cut area finished by hand.

- If all else fails work the part with files and sandpaper. It's slow but beats stitches - DAMHIKT.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Aside from building instruments, I've worked in cabinet shops and instrument repair shops for 40+ years. 15 years ago I quit and went into instruments full time.
I saw 4 "gloved accidents" personally, and in one shop they banned gloves after 3 accidents. You would think a drill press might be safe, but I watched helplessly as a guy had his glove dragged into the bit and drilled a hole right through the fingernail. Bits of bone and blood were on the bit.
It only takes once.
Do what you like, but if you can't take a splinter and not flinch, you might want to try knitting...

As far as small pieces, when they get small I use the bandsaw. I hardly use the table saw except to cut the T/R channel in the neck.

Here's what I was talking about:

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Saw blades are designed to cut things that are rigid . If material get caught on a blade it will be pulled in. One advantage is that your fingers may be easier to pick up . If you would have done that in my shop you would be sent home for a safety violation and loose 3 days pay.
I hope you never have an accident but with gloves , you take up more space and any thing that can be caught by a blade can be disastrous. Use a puch block , throw away the sticks . I would rather be punched that stabbed .

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I should add that in 40 years, there were only 2 shops that I worked in where anyone used gloves. Most all cabinetmakers and woodworking shops think gloves are nuts except to offload lumber from the delivery truck.
Gloves are loose to your fingers, slip, and drastically reduce the feel and touch. Save 'em for finishing...

Hone your hand tool chops, and don't cut those little pieces with power tools. If your hand tools are sharp, and you know how to use them, it's no slower, no less precise, and a lot quieter.

Always use the 'safest' power tool that will do the job. None of them are safe, of course, but, for example, the bandsaw is probably less risky than a table saw, which is safer than a radial arm saw.

Phillipo, no offense meant to you specifically, perhaps a bit crass, but I would hate to count the splinters I've gotten over 40 years! Counting to 10 is much more important than a few splinters. As suggested, push sticks (properly made) are a great safety.
Respect for the tools is of utmost importance, and just a general wariness of them is developed over many years of use. Sometimes something will just not look right...time to rethink the operation. Time of day is important. If I'm feeling tired I won't tackle something that I would feel safer doing the next morning. I don't like shapers and table routers for small parts like bridges. I'd rather cut them on a bandsaw and sand them on my 6 X 89 sander or use a Robosander and template. Might take a bit longer but I still got all 10.
I have seen folks do things in shops that would make me run to the other end of the shop. Freehanding on a table saw comes to mind.

Man ain't that the truth. Way back when I was a framer I couldn't believe some of things guys used to try to do on the job site with Skill saws;and sometimes they didn't get away with it.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I'm afraid that I would have to agree with Haans and John...gloves, long sleeve shirts, jewelry, anything that could possible come in contact with a blade can pull your hand into the blade. I understand the thought that if one's hand is close enough for the glove to contact the blade, it's too close, but it does happen. When I started working with table saws and band saws almost 40 years ago, this is something that was emphasized over and over. I'm glad for all of the emphasis on safety, because other than getting whacked once due to kickback, I've never had any type of accident.

Not trying to change your mind on how you want to work, if you are comfortable with it after 25 years, OK. Just wanted to make a comment for others reading this string that they may want to give some thought to this before trying it. In the end, everyone decides for themselves how they want to work.

Folks will do what they will do. If you feel safe with gloves, fine. However, the more sound advice to others is DO NOT WEAR GLOVES. We all know that all it takes is xx years and 1 day. I never wear my wedding ring, no watch. I don't even like wearing gloves in the winter while driving. Drives my wife nuts.

Todd, you'd have me running to the far end of the shop. I saw a guy hang up a piece of cardboard on a table saw once... he said it kicked like a mule.

Guess that's why I'm not a boatbuilder!
I don't use a table saw much 'cause I just can't find much instrument-making-wise to do on it. Furniture or jig-making is another story and I use it quite a bit. Cabinetmakers pretty much look at a table saw as a rip/crosscut machine...

Now Hanns, you keep saying how you don't use your tablesaw much in instrument building. Now I've seen pics of your shop and if I'm not mistaken it looks like you use your tablesaw all the time. Looks like it's one of your main assembly areas isn't it?

And it does look like your using it safely,
Joe

And carpenters fir it in and cover it up with trim.

Joe, your right, my outfeed table is my workbench!

Todd Stock wrote:
"Hand prep of stock is not something most luthiers use, so hand plane skills are just not that big a deal, resulting in less emphasis on sharpening than in hand tool cabinetmaking."

Sad, but true.

Several years ago a graduate of one of the luthier schools stopped by my shop for some assisitance. The bridge was coming off his guitar, and he needed help getting it off cleanly. When he looked around my shop, his first question was: "How can you make guitars without a sander?".

Personally, I don't see how anybody can make guitars without a sharp hand plane or three. I do use power tools for stock prep: the joiner (which I approach with the respect one would accord a rattlesnake), and the drill press planer, get a lot of milage. But everything gets hand planed on all surfaces, and scraped on most. To each his own, I guess.

That's the bench I use the most too.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I echo the sentiments of those who advise against the use of gloves and loose-fitting clothes when working with rotating machinery. One can never underestimate the effect of absent-mindedness,especially when doing repetitive operations. It is one of the reasons they installed safety harnesses on punch presses.

Think I'll stay in the "no glove while operating machinery" side of this debate.

I wish I knew more about the setup and use of handtools! Why doesn't someone make those videos! Todd?.......<smile>

_________________
Formerly known as Adaboy.......