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Hi

I am planning my first build and had more or less decided to follow Cumpiano's method of cutting the tenon and mortise in the neck block before assembly. However with most other building guides the mortise and tenon is cut after the body has been assembled. This method appears to be more cumbersome to make.

Are there any reasons why you should do this ?

The only difference between my build and Cumpaino's us that I will be using a mould and not a solera.

If I choose the second option is it worth investing in the Stew Mac mortise and tenon jigs ?

John

I cut my mortise in the neck block before assembly. For me, it's much easier, as I do 8-10 sets of neck and tail blocks at the same time. The jig is much simpler, and the thought of mortising a neck block on a fully finished box is a little scary to me. Others mortise after the box is finished and get great results.

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Jimmy Caldwell
http://www.caldwellguitars.com

Sorry I forgot there are classic and steel builders - mine will be a steel - OM style.

John

I've done several where I did the routing on the closed box, and it does tend to scare the crap out of me...I've also trashed a box or two that way. I am experimenting with a semi-hollow electric upright bass now, and using a neck block that is already cut for the M&T joint. Have to admit, it is really nice to have a small part to hold while checking for a fit, instead of a large box I have to be careful with. We'll see how it goes.


-Matthew

Thanks for the responses on this, I am glad that my view is shared.

Getting a good fit between the neck and the block before you put everything together seems the common sense approach, just leave tinkering with the neck angle later on in the build.

I would like to hear from any builders who cut the neck joint after the body is built, there must be some pros ad cons

John

John: Both the mortice and the tenon can be easly done on the table saw.Problems can happen on glue up.Be sure the mortice is centered and not tilted one way or the other. Once you are all clamped up look in the end of the mortice for excess glue and remove.Good luck.
Tom.
P.S. When cutting your block add a saw cut width to the lenght. Drill two small holes in one end,outside where the mortice will fall.Drill them in about 3/4 inch. I use a drill that is a push fit for finish nails that are about 2inches long. Cut off the end that has the drilled holes at approx1/2 inch. cut your mortice and then glue the short piece bank on using the guide pins.Done correctly it is invisible.Hope you can followthese instructions.

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

Hi Tom

I don't follow this bit

P.S. When cutting your block add a saw cut width to the lenght. Drill two small holes in one end,outside where the mortice will fall.Drill them in about 3/4 inch. I use a drill that is a push fit for finish nails that are about 2inches long. Cut off the end that has the drilled holes at approx1/2 inch. cut your mortice and then glue the short piece bank on using the guide pins.Done correctly it is invisible.Hope you can followthese instructions.

I cut mine after the body is built. It makes it easier to fit the neck. I use dovetails so I'm dealing with several angles. Either way works.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
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To me there seem to be two ways to go at it, each with pluses and minuses.

Cutting your mortise in the neck block before building the box is easy to do on the table saw, the down side is getting it glued up square in your box so your neck lines up right. Notice there are no square sides or corners on a guitar to help with alignment.

By cutting your mortise after the box is assembled you eliminate the problem of getting the neck block in square, but you have the scary task of cutting into a box you've already spent a lot of time on. Therefore you need to construct a jig to keep that operation in control.

So, take your choice. I've found I can screw it up either way!

Joe

I do mine after the box is made with a jig for sure to help get the proper line-up.I did my first without a jig and almost ruined the box when the bit took off. I got lucky on that one as the neck heal just covered it. I did fill and resand before putting the neck on though.That did promp me to build the jig and gone well since.

John : Sorry you can't follow. Todd told you about plugging the end of your mortise. This a another way to cut the through mortise and blank off the end. You cut a piece of the end off the block,cut your mortise,then glue the cut off back on using the guide pins for alignment. The pins ( finish nails) ensure perfect alignment and prevent slippage when gluing.Be sure to drill the holes before cutting the end off the block. This may not be much more help.
Tom.

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

i know this doesnt answer your question, but i decided to do away with the mortise and tenon all togther on my first build. a bolt on butt joint is super simple.

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sweat the small stuff.

Hi Heath

It was my intention to use the Cumpiano's revised bolt on neck anyway, so I think therefore that answers my question.

I don't think it would be possible to do a bolt on neck after the body is built, would you agree?

Isn't the bolt on neck still a mortise and tenon with bolts ?

John

Just blown my theory out of the water

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzlZvDyKnPI

I remember watching thsi last week and completely forgot !

the video that robby put together is for a bolt on mortise and tenon neck. you can still use a bolt on set up without the mortise and tenon. no mortise + no tenon = butt joint. it saves you the hassle of cutting a tenon on the neck and cutting a mortise in the box. not that either of those procedures are especially a big deal, but it just seemed easier to do away with them. the butt joint is plenty strong and there are a number of builders using it, including large factories if i am not mistaking. i used the bolt on neck inserts from LMI, but there are a number of other choices available, including hanger bolts and the like from lowes and home depot, etc.

i realize your initial question was regarding the mortise and tenon, but you seemed a bit unsure about it so i threw out the butt joint idea. if youre not into it, no big deal. just thought i would mention it.

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sweat the small stuff.

If you're going to use a butted bolt on I'd recommend installing a wood dowell through the heel. The inserts could really weaken this area. Before installing the fingerboard, the inserts or heel cap drill a 1/2" hole from the heel through the FB surface of the neck. This makes it alot stronger, and also gives the inserts a something better than endgrain to thread into.

There's lot's of ways to make a neck joint. I don't use a bolt on, but if I was going to I'd probably do it this way.

_________________
I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/