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I am currently retopping a small 000 shape. Is there anything wrong with cutting down through the body fret to remove the top?. I wqs hoping not to have to remove and refret the whole FB.
Thanks
Steve

Well for a retop, you normally have to remove the whole neck, fretboard extension included. Cutting the fretboard extension will greartly reduce the overall structure integrity of the nexk joint.

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Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)

Besides,
if you cut the fretboard how will you bind it?

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

The fret board on this guitar has no bindings.
I dont really get the strength problem if the new top goes on with all braces and the fb from 14th -22.
The piece of wood removed is the width of a fret kerf and less than 1mm deep. To be replaced with RW shim and new fret.

I'm talking about binding the body...

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

Its a funny little Guild M20
Mahogany top no bindings there either!

Um, Steve

There are 3 ways to do stuff.... the right way and my way.

Now if this is a beater 000 then I wish to accord you the privilage of doing it your way.

But after you done did your way, well then maybe the wisdom of the right way may unvale itself unto you
but by then it will be too late....or of course you can take to heart what the dudes have already layed down regarding toping and cutting fbs.

By the way just cuz your gonna remove the FB don't nessessarily mean re freting.

Oh and yes even a 1/16 " of meat under a fret on a FB is a lot of structural intergrity to that neck joint.

Then of course there is my way of re topping
...just stuff $20 in an envelop to
the Padma
C/O this here web site.
and I'll email it to you.

Now if your really in to quick and dirty toping jobs...you could always just use some of that wood grain finish Mac Tack form the uncle wally store. Is cheap too.


blessings
the
Padma

PS....hmmm...maybe me should start a thread on the Virtues of Mac Tack ....

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.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

PS....hmmm...maybe me should start a thread on the Virtues of Mac Tack ....


Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mercy Mercy I beg of the Padma

I know Bill Moll has done it that way on a 12 fret Guild and other Some issue with the binding but just had to do a little by hand (kind of way it was in old days before routers) Can't remember if he did it one fret above the body join or at the join I am old now and memory bank sucks. I think I did a couple one above the join, but it has been more than a day since did it so would have to look and think about when I do it again.

That won't work well and I can tell you why , the top you are taking off will most likely be a different thickness than the one you will put on. Not to mention the new tops geometry will be different . If you are going to do it , do it right . I agree you may need to cut the fretboard in order to pull the neck. If I think this is what needs to be done in my shop I cut the 2nd fret up the neck , then remove the lower part with heat and expose the neck joint. This also will make a more secure fretboard when you put it back together over cutting the lower fret. Once the neck joint is open you can have more luck at steaming it free. If it is epoxied you can have free shot at sawing it off . The object is to make the fretboard structural . Martin used to cut the 14 fret off to steam off necks and this tended to make for some issues later.
With the neck out of the way you have a good shot at redoing the guitar and making a better job out of it plus how do you know what the neck angle will be on the new top ?

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

You guys said it, i will add that i prefer to level the board and refret whenever i remove and reglue a fb, and i include a refret in the estimate when retopping a guitar. You could theoretically luck out and have the frets come out nice when doing a new top without refreting, but i wouldn't count on it.

Cutting through the body joint fret slot was common practice a while ago, but it is frowned upon now pretty heavily. Refreting isn't too much of a drag, and you won't have any 'splainin to do if another luthier sees your work.

When retopping a guitar, i usually just pull the neck in the normal way (if it's a dovetail or bolt on), reset the neck after the new top is on, then level the board and refret last. Like John Hall said, without a neck reset you are relying heavily on luck to arrive at the correct neck angle.


It actually isn't too bad to rebind with the neck on, that's the way it is done for classicals all the time, it just takes a tiny bit of knife and chisel work up by the neck.


I don't get it, why cut through the board at all? (it's a serious question, you obviously do things for a reason and i am just curious why)

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Jordan Aceto
Ithaca, NY

I should amend the cutting through the fret board. Some older guitars used some odd glued that won't come off nice. I had a gretch that was like that. I had to cut the fretboard above the body to expose the joint. This allows you to reglue the fretboard back on the neck , and that makes a solid sound reglue. Much better than the over body cut that I don't propose you use .
Not all necks come out easy and you need more than one technique in your bag of tricks. If you never had a problem neck , count yourself lucky . If you do this for a living , at some point you will get that neck from Hades .

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Gotcha, i know what you mean, sometimes you need to resort to threats to get them to let go!

Gretsch guitars are always the worst for throwing curve balls at the repair person, sometimes the dovetail gap isn't anywhere near a fret and you need to do weird things to get steam in there.

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Jordan Aceto
Ithaca, NY

I had a hard neck to remove once , was cheap old guitar when i had just started , couple weeks ago. And I found that after hitting it against the wall several times and drinking beer it came apart real easy !


ok so im a philistine !! but its never boring around here

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I have reset a neck in this manor and I will never do it again. I had to do it because there was no way of knowing what kind of neck joint was on this guitar and it was my own guitar and a cheap one at that plus I wanted to learn. What I found happened is that it created a hump eventually over time probably because the tongue could creep a bit. So then you have to refret and resurface but by the time you have to do all that you may as well reset the neck which is actually quite easy if you know where the joint is.

BTW the method I used to retop was to rout the top right off the guitar with the bindings in place. Just ass a line of purfling to hide the new top joint and it works like a charm, no new bindings or refinishing the sides.

There is always more than one way to do the same job , use the technique that will give you the widest margin for error . I had a neck on one guitar that was epoxied and doweled. I got it as an experiment . I used my foot and a few well placed kits to remove that neck , and I proceeded to take it to my burn barrel and contributed to global warming. I will admit , it felt good.
Since then and talking to a few older pros that had been around a long time I have found at least 4 other methods to get a troubled neck off. The cutting off the fretboard up the neck worked on a few old problem necks. After steaming longer than I am comfortable with , I will do it as suggested by Alex Gray and I have found this method will allow total access to the neck block area . If I need to cut the neck free I can , but I can drill along the body joint and get steam into the area I need. The reattached fretboard , being glued above the block will make for a good structural repair .
It isn't my 1st choice but if I need it ,it will do the job.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it