Official Luthiers Forum!

Surely a rather arrogant and narrow view? You may believe that we should all be somehow dedicated to the advancement of lutherie... but personnally I am kinda dedicated to having fun and learning skills that mean one day I will see my daughter's face light up because she gets to play a guitar daddy built and enjoy it - I doubt there would be any greater pleasure had I dedicated my time to the 'advancement of lutherie ... '

Dont be too surprised if someone 'tinkering', one day advances lutherie to a far greater step than all the acoustic engineers and material science, deflection tests and formula - afterall we work with a very natural material that is always full of surprizes.

And I am a scientist by learning!

SEE...

hole in one.



Bondo...ya just gotta love it.

blessings
the
Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Well now,

If we're going to burn a "Bondo witch" at the stake, we should get all of them.
This will be a sad day for "the advancment of lutherie", as a quick search has revealed a number of heratics. Lets line them up.
Tim McKnight used it on a form.
Howard Klepper suggested (Suggested?,Oh my!) it's use on a solid body electric.
Tony Karol believes it is good for a feedback blocker in Archtops (that post seemed tounge in cheek so we'll need a tribunal on his sentance).
John Watkins actualy did use it on a solid body and (gasp) likes it!
Hesh promotes the use of said witches brew it for clamping cauls.
Micheal Dale Payne- molds and forms.
Todd Stock??!! I'm sorry, Bondo spreaders wouldn't be around if it wasn't for Bondo.
Chris Verhoeven, Hung out with Todd who used bondo spreaders which were produced to spread bondo. My what a tangled web we weave.

Steve

Steven: It's only heresy if the guitar and bondo together weighs the same as a duck (or small rocks).

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck

JB Weld is for amateurs, real pros use Belzona Molecular!

-Rene

I find it interesting that some of us have such little faith in each other. It's one's own personal responsibility to decide what information is useful in any media. I see no need for censorship of ideas. One thing I have learned: never underestimate another person. I have learned much from young, old, experienced, naive, or newt. Let your work do the talking. Everything else will take care of itself.

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Tom Krebs

Well, I happen to agree with Chris.... utter rubbish. But I rather leave it alone than say what I really think.

I will say this though, I would be embarrassed at some of this stuff.

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

well said

As someone who fits squarely into the anal perfectionist culture of uptight pursuit of the highest quality in my work (as defined by tight joints, shiny finish, and agonizing over every detail) I love what you do, Padma!! Please keep it coming. It's a welcome perspective to the way luthiers roll in my book. (although I'm still holding out hope that Chris is really just keeping a good joke rolling).

Chris, off topic but I love the shape of that bondo-free guitar in your photo! Is that your design? It's sweet.

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http://www.chassonguitars.com

Yo, Peter,

The good Lord blessed you with skills that far surpass many builders.
Your work and work attatude is highly admired and respected.

As such I would trully welcome hearing what your "real thoughts" are regarding not only bondo but other issuses that this thread has evoked...issues of morality, criticism, condemnation and even the suggestions of censorship.

thank you
and

blessings
the
Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Mr. Padma,
I will make it brief so not too ruffle too many feathers.
I take lutherie very seriously and strive to make the best I can or at least improve on what I do with each build.
There are several people here who are great builders that offer a tremendous amount of resources to some of the newer builders. I try to offer help whenever I can too. People like Alan Carruth, Todd, Lance and Brock,Hank (to name a few that came to mind) are a great asset to this community. They post helpful threads with incredible jigs and fixtures along with some problem solutions that can help many. Then there are posts like this.... I can think of a few simple fixtures that can carry a much better function than bondo while truly exposing the builder's creativity. When I see a thread like this makes me wonder what's the purpose?
In other words, I am not fond of "half fast jobs".

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

I'm pretty sure a little humour will make us live longer. I also think that if the Padma were to become the Premier of the Province of British Columbia we would be much better off than we are now.

Thanks for the Laugh,
Danny

See... I have no idea how this worked like it did... Padma posted a REAL use for Bondo....

I post my bondo'ed binding gaps..... and everyone yells at.... PADMA?

Wow... Sorry about that man... Didn't figure they would throw rocks at you for My bondo job....

Now.. Let's just ask 1 question to those who believe Bondo has no place in Lutherie.......

Do you pore fill?

Yep, I thought so.

John

yep, but not with Bondo....

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

I bet you could use this stuff to make an entire guitar with if you made a mold.

Sorry to go off topic: I've seen this acronym several times now, but don't know what it means. Please tell me it's something dirty.....

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Cheers,
Curtis Olson
Hamilton, VA

Don't ask me how I know that

I think sometimes folks equate 'seriously' with dedication and passion. You can be completely dedicated, passionate, creative in your pursuit of 'perfection', WITHOUT taking everything so seriously all the time....surely? Also, from what i see from Padma's posts and builds he seems about as passionate and dedicated to making instruments his way as any of the 'very serious' pros in their pursuit of art... Sometimes I think there are some folk who forget that what we are making or in cases like myself trying to make is and always will be a musical instrument. If it makes good music and gives joy and pleasure to one or many, of whatever style, is that not as equal or if not even better thing to be 'dedicated and passionate about' than the quality of your neck joint and which glue you use?

Sue if you want to get the stage where you can charge $15,000 for one of instruments because it is in every way perfect in your opinion (and possibly in others too) good for you. But I am just glad that there are also folk out there building for the sheer pleasure of creating something...as odd and as wierd and wonderful as it may seem to those 'dedicating their lives to the advancement of Lutherie' - room for everyone I would have thought.

Filippo: I agree with you entirely. I'm a 51 year guy who does this as a hobby and I am more than capable of making my own decisions and choosing what I will use to build with and how i will build. I don't need the morality squad looking out to protect my interests.

Padma's threads are entertaining, humorous, interesting and, most importantly, demonstrates very creative work, more so than probably 90% of what is shown here. Keep 'em coming, Padma!

New member here, just beginning my first build. This has been a very interesting post. Humor, passion, and snuck in there some useful information.

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Bobby Masten

Just been but, hey, I've got an opinion too (along with several other bodily orifices)

I'm with Filippo here. Been building stuff all my life too and I've seen way too many people who think because they're good at something, they have the "Right Way" all figured out. In my experience it just turns out to be one of many ways to get the job done. As far as worrying about newbies getting bad info; they just have to learn like everyone else. As long as it won't get anyone hurt then let it ride. If you think its a lousy idea, say so, then move on.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I doubt any of the pro's here use it at all.



...nothing to do with how many guitars you've build. In fact, I couldn't care less what you guys use. Just don't pawn it off to others. There are a few guys that used to be in the automotive finishing industry that have used more Bondo than you've laid eyes on.. I guarantee you Bondo does not reside in their shop.



Ridiculous comparison.....

Anyway, I'm just gonna take this whole thread as a big joke... thanks for contributing.

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

Ya! Peter....you finaly got it.


the
Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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peterm wrote:
"Imagine if some of the world's greatest minds were mentored by people with this philosophy? We'd have a Mona Lisa with some white-out on it cause he didn't quite get the eyes right the first time 'round..."

I am a 51 year amateur and I am unable to complete a guitar with out there being flaws of some type -- usually more than I can count. I am guessing from your posts that your guitars do not suffer any such flaws that a discerning eye would find. Consequently, since all of us cannot achieve such perfection, occassionally, we have to use some "white out" to minimize the extent of our mistakes.

About 10 years ago, I was staying at the Biltmore Hotel in Phoenix which was "designed" at least in part (alot of controversey about that) by Frank Lloyd Wright. Probably considered one the greatest hotels in the USA, architecturally wise with a beutiful carved stone exterior. When I was there, they were building a new wing which I spent some time looking at.

While I was out there, I went to Taliesin West, which was FLW's residence that he designed and built. There is also an elite architectural school at Taliesin which teaches with a goal to continue FLW's theories, traditions and views. I met one of the professors there and commented that the exterior of the new wing at the Biltmore, with all of the "stone carvings" was being made, starting at the second floor, out of styrofoam with stucco applied rather than real stone. I told him I thought it was disappointing that they weren't replicating "the real deal." He told me I was dead wrong--that styrofoam had the same utility as stone, would last as long, helped provide insulation and was cheaper and easier to build with. He then said "FLW would fully approve."

Please get your facts straight and don't use my name in quote I didn't make.

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com