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Someone ask you to build them a bluegrass guitar, what would you build?

Size
Top
Back/sides
Scale

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Bro. Matthew A.
Oklahoma

Dreadnaught;
adirondack top
E.I.Rosewood
25.4

Personally, I like a 12 fret Dreadnaught in mahog/adi., but most of the folks I know ( admittedly, only a few) want Brazilian 14 fret adirondack as a first choice.
regards,
jack

Martin style 18 or 28 dred. I have a few SJ's out there being used in this genre no complaints so far.

I've built several for local grassers. For a player who's mainly rythym it's Adi or Sitka top, some kind of Rosewood B/S, 25.34" scale. For lead players it's Adi or Sitka, Mahogany, or Walnut B/S, 25.34 scale, either Standard Dread or 14 fret slope shoulder dread. I built one 14 fret Slope D with Alaskan Yellow Cedar top, Walnut back/sides. It's owner really makes it sing. Walnut isn't usually considered bluegrass wood but I've found that it works great. I prefer Adi tops but some people like Sitka better. I've lost a couple sales because I won't do a square Martin style headstock. There's nothing wrong with a square headstock, I just want my guitars to be....different.

More, I really liked the Alaskan Yellow Cedar top. It takes a few minutes to "warm up" every time it's played though. It's almost 2 years old and it's owner tells me it's still the same way.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

I'm planning for my next build and am torn between Adi/ Honduran Mahogany or Adi/EIR. It's going to be a 12 fret dread. The Mahogany is only about 10 bucks cheaper so it has nothing to do with price. Do most grassers ask for Rosewood or Hog when put behind red spruce?

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Bro. Matthew A.
Oklahoma

Older blue grassers ( folks my age) in my experience, won't much look at anything other than a Martin;
on the other hand the younger guys , the ones drooling over Collings, Santa Cruz, Huss and Dalton or Bourgiois are another story, BUT they still , again in my experience, want it to look Martin-ish, and that includes the square-ed off peghead, and 14 fret Dreadnaught size.
If you doubt what I am saying, take a look at the websites of the builders I list; they all look Martin-ish.
All, just in my opinion, based on my personal experience
best regards,
jack

Woody, was your slope D 14 fret a 25.34? Your post seems to say so, but many old Gibsons were 24.75.

This may vary from location to location. Here seems most folks are very traditional when it comes to body shape.....including headstock. However, they don't mind onamentation as much (meaning fretboard inlays, pearl around the body or fretboard, headstock inlay, etc.).

My take is most bluegrassers are very focused on tone.....and love the bass "cut" you get when the string is attacked. With that said, they don't really care what it looks like.....scratched up, finish worn through, etc. as long as it sounds great. I've seen some rythm players playing action way higher than I personally would put up with.

I'm torn on the mahogany vs rosewood debate. It's very interesting to hear that Walnut sounds good on a bluegrass guitar. I've heard before that Walnut gives a tone between mahogany and rosewood but I've never heard one myself.

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

A 1935 Epiphone Olympic.



I love the sound of this guitar for bluegrass....but it could just be the player (David Rawlings) as well!

Shane

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Canada

Yes, 14 fret, 25.34" . I don't think a shorter scale would fare very well with Banjos in the mix. Gibson Advanced Jumbos were longer, maybe 25.5"??????
Bluegrass is BIG around here, but alot of the guitar traditions have changed. I even see a Taylor every now and then. I've only lost 2 sales because I won't do a "Martin" type headstock. 15 years ago Martins was all that got looked at.

_________________
I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

It seems Martins or custom hand-made guitars are both accepted. Anything else is rare. And the older and more beat-up the martin, the better! <smile>

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

Around here... They don't know what the word "Amplifier" means in the local Bluegrass jams... but they sure do know how to play hard on Banjos and fiddles....

Pattern:
Martin looking D-28 knockoff...

Sound:
As loud as you can make it!

Build it for Medium strings and a very heavy right hand attack with a very thick, hard pick...

Thanks

John

So you think most grassers would reject a 12-fretter?

They don't really play much past that. I guess it's along the same lines as the head shape only being square. Maybe if you tell them its a "Martin" style 12 fretter they would accept it?

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Bro. Matthew A.
Oklahoma

I think you could build an old Martin style 12-fret D (Ditson 111) or something like that... if YOU want to play it in jams with your friends... They will let you play it... and it will probably get plenty of attention if you can hear it loud and clear over the Banjos...

But... I wouldn't build one like that to sell on Consignment.

Like I said... the key is Loud... If guys with Banjos are telling you to play a little softer because they can't hear anything over your guitar... you got a winner.

Thanks

John

DR MA,
A bluegrass guitar is typically an HD-28 dreadnought style guitar. 14-fret at body, herringbone purf, scalloped x-brace, etc. For guys playing a lot of rhythm and some leads, a higher action is fine. Many bluegrassers can play breaks on a higher action without much trouble. If your guy will be wired and on stage, a lower action would be possible without losing anything.

The guitars I am building are for bluegrassers. They have thin adi and sitka tops with light scalloped x-bracing. I use honduras and coco rosewood back and sides and they really boom in a jam. The rosewood un-scalloped d28 and mahogany d28s I have heard and played just don't have the deep, loud bass power that the rosewoods seem to impart.

What Woody said is correct about the headstock. The square headstock is preferred. John made mention the loudness factor and I have found this true also. If you can keep your rhythm above the banjo you've done it. Santa Cruz even has a model call the banjo killer... it has a larger sound hole... hmm.

I'm at the IBMA's for the rest of the week and will be watching and jamming. I'll count how many Gibson guitars I see (Todd ).

...

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Chris Oliver
Infinity Luthiers
...in the shop.

live every minute...

What would be your (anyone) advice on my next build...Red spruce top and very good grade Honduran mahogany or 2nd grade EIRosewood (from LMI)?

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Bro. Matthew A.
Oklahoma

forgot to ask about nut width...what nut width do the blue grassers like, wide or narrow?

And, do you think they would be open to v-necks?

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Bro. Matthew A.
Oklahoma

Most of my "grasser" friends don't really care about nut width, and like slightly V'd necks. I wouldn't hand a flatpicker a guitar with a 1 7/8" nut, but some of my friends play...........banjo style. They don't mind, or actually like wider necks. IMHO for a spec guitar you can't go wrong with 1 3/4" nut and 2 3/16" or 2 1/4" spacing at the saddle. Usually, Rosewood is more popular than Mahogany, but I prefer Mahogany.

_________________
I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

Well, speaking strictly as a player and not a builder (by *any* means), I'll add my $0.02.

I play a LOT of bluegrass and what is affectionately known as "spacegrass." After playing a ton of D style guitars, I finally had the chance to play and record with *THE* bluegrass guitar. It made an impression on me and taught me what I'm looking for.

Definitely D size, rosewood. For this type of music, high grade EI, Madagascar, or if $$$$ allows-- Brazilian rosewood. If your customer is hung up on headstock shape then I'd venture to say he's more concerned about this guitar being "as good as a Martin." Ugghhh... It's time for the blindfold test then. Yes, the one Lance built for me has a diamond volute but only because I'm used to feeling that there. In actuality, I expected it to come with his usual volute, but this was a not unpleasant surprise (either his volute or the diamond would have been just fine).

The tone is a real sticking point. So many of the bluegrass guitars are boomers. That's great if you only play rhythm and never play into a microphone. What really sets apart a great guitar, at least to my ears, is a strong midrange "honk" and a "throaty" sound on the B string-- almost a midrange tone dip on that string (not a volume dip, a tone dip). Kind of a built in bass roll-off. I think these type of instruments sound best when they are built so lightly they are just about to fly apart under their own tension. Heavily scalloped, non-rear shifted bracing is a must, of course.

As for the top, everyone goes on and on about Adi tops. I think that is overblown hype. Yes, the choice of a top material makes a difference, but I've played Adi as well as Carpathian, Sitka, and German spruce tops. The Carpathian Lance chose is better than any Adi I've ever played. Some of the Adi guitars I've played have tops so stiff it seems to choke the notes on the way out. This Carpathian really makes the notes "jump." I think it speaks volumes that Tony could have any type of spruce on the top of his Santa Cruz that he would ever want but it has German Spruce. The soundhole is another source of contention. Yes, I believe the soundhole size changes the natural resonant frequency of the wood, but, I think if the guitar is planned to have the large soundhole the carving and tuning of the top compensates for that and the real effect of the larger soundhole is simply to eliminate some of the boominess and smooth out the eq curve. So, that said, I don't think a larger soundhole is necessary unless it's for aesthetic reasons in new construction or for altering the tone of an already built boomy guitar. (I have a 1980 D-28 I enlarged the soundhole on for that very reason.)

Neck shape-- so personal I can't really say. I know I've heard a lot of backlash against the V shaped and mod-V shaped necks as well as the 50's style Louisville Slugger necks. For me, it's thin, thin, thin (front to back) that's the key. I am on the fence about adjustable truss rods. I like the convenience, but for some reason the old T bar necks just "feel" more solid to me unless there are some carbon fiber supports in the neck along with the truss rod. That neck's gotta be stiff and straight. Why people want high action for bluegrass, I'll never understand. It simply ain't necessary and can cause injury if too high. Nut width, well, of course the sky is the limit with a custom build. My favorite is something Lance suggested-- 1 11/16" nut but keep the wider string spacing at the bridge. Pure comfort. Scale length, well, I'm not hung up on that. Santa Cruz's slightly shorter scale, Gibson's even shorter, and Martin's standard scale length all play and sound fine to me.

I guess in a nutshell, I'd say it would be a guitar that fits like a tailored shirt, has a neck that you forget is in your hand, and has a tone that you can't describe (if you can pick out certain aspects of the tone, that aspect is then overbearing and should be tamed). Then throw on some nickel silver strings, get out a microphone, and don't try to overpower the instrument-- finesse it. Any guitar can be a bluegrass guitar then. Heck, I placed third at the Merlefest contest a few years ago using the E2 model Lance built for me and played it on stage numerous times with bluegrass bands.

Other than that, it's difficult and sometimes a little frustrating to try and describe what's a good bluegrass guitar... I think it's like asking what is the perfect glass for red wine. The answers are: a guitar you can play is a good bluegrass guitar and the empty glass in front of you is the perfect glass for red wine.