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Hi

I am getting ready to build my fist guitar but can't decide which is the best option to use a workboard or a mold.

I will assume I will be making more than one guitar
They could be the same or different shapes, undecided
I may start off with a kit
I have plenty of time and plenty of room

Regards

John

What, are you trying to make us jealous or something?

Classical or steel string? As you may know, the traditional Spanish method of construction is with a work board, while most builders of steel string guitars use outside moulds. Since I make steel sting guitars, I say use a mould! I actually made my first guitars with work board (solera?) because that was how it was done in the book that I followed. The advantage of the mould is that symmetry is pretty much a given, without one it is not. The disadvantage is that it you need a different one for each body shape, so it takes some more time initially (but since you have "plenty of time...") There are adjustable moulds too, I'm not too fond of mine, though; too much fiddling around.

Good luck!

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

As Arnt I'd say that the traditionnal way for classical is the solera... but (because there is a but), in my opinion, it's quite a good idea to use a mold as well. Solera is good for the soundboard dome. I did my classicals with solera only, but the following classicals I'm gonna do, I'll use both solera and mold.
And for steel string I think a mold is enough, as the dome is printed by the shape of the X mainly

This is not an easy answer without asking this , are you building classical or steel strings and are you planning on using the spanish heel or neck block style. If the answer is steel strings then check out this link. This will help explain the geometry of the guitar and sides. The sides are not just flat but do have distinct areas. http://bluescreekguitars.com/blog/ Once you set the sides up in the mold they need to stay there till you have the top and back on. The mold will hold shape and symmetry but also keep the neck block square so when you do your neck set you will have an easier time.
If you are using the spanish style then you want the Solera . In essence you build that from the top up and the neck is attached before you start so your working on a dished board . Building boards are an old method but as guitar building progressed they fell to the way side for better techniques.
Good luck and have fun . We are here to help .

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Hey John, can you clarify something for me. I've read that post from your blog many times in the past and I'm wondering a couple of things:

1) That centering pin on your sanding disc is clever. Is the body/mold fixed to it somehow?

2) When radiusing the top, am I understanding correctly? Your top is not a radiused surface at the rim? You have 2 distinct radiused surfaces that meet somewhere near the waist? If so, how does that not show as an irregularlity in the curvature of the top? And then, how does that eliminate the hump? I haven't drawn it out, but the way I'm picturing it in my head, that would increase the hump. Now that I've type that, I wonder if I've got it backwards...

Thanks,

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Mike Lindstrom

I've used both and several years ago made the decision to go with the Fox type mold. I've developed a system with it that works very well but the conventional mold is just as good I'm sure. Pros and cons to each. You should use some kind of mold however that holds the rimset rigidly and allows you to keep things symmetrical and on the center line. It makes life a lot easier when you are setting the neck angle and alignment.
Good Luck
Terry

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

The decison to use a solera or not depends on the building method that you want to use, it realy has nothing to do with whether you're building a classical or steel guitar. Likewise, using a mold or not is a building style and realy has nothing to do with whether you're building a classical or steel guitar. Different types of guitars have been historically associated with different building styles and that perhaps that accounts for why some folks seems to think that there is a reason why it must be so. So, if you want, you can use both a solera and a mold to build a steel string or a classical.

There are a lot of reasons why you would choose one building style over another and the way you like to build things will affect which style you like. I'll describe what I do just to give you an idea of the options and because it's less common.

I like the Spanish methods because of the way you start with the top and build on that, it's a personal preference. The solera estabilishes the shape of the top, I use compound arching that I change from time to time as I find a new direction that I want to go in. I arch the top braces to match my solera and then while the top is on the solera I glue the braces on. The neck angle is factored in to the shape of the top arching in my solera. Either a go-bar deck or clamps can be used. That's your choice too.

I use a mold for the sides because it's just a great way to control the shape of the guitar. When it comes time to mate the top to the sides, I just place the sides, mold and all over the top on the solera and keep building up from there. Since I like the spanish method I like to join the top to the sides with individual blocks rather than kerfed lining. That way I can "block" the brace ends with seperate blocks as opposed to cutting slots for them in the kerfing. Again, it's just my preferece of how I like to do it. After the top is joined to sides and while the solera is still holding the top I profile the sides where they meet the back, and kerfed linings, cut slots for the back braces and glue the back on. Now that the box is completed I remove it from the solera.

A mold also works fine for a classical guitar on a solera but you need to be able to remove a chunk of the mold for the neck when it goes on the top.

I think it's hard to appreciate the subitlies of each style of building until you try them. The more "standard" way of building a steel string works too and most prefer it, for various resons, and it certainly lends itself more to factory production.

If you have any questions about what I described or need a picture or too to help illustrate I imagine I could find one or two.

Good luck with the guitar,

John

On the top , to avoid the 14th fret hump you have to match the neck angle on the top to where the fretboard extension comes on the top. Flat boards won't allow for this and you will see the hump. The 28 foot radius equates to the 1 1/2 degree angle I use. Once the top is semi radiused as described the area is flattened to allow a straight line. I will have a you tube video soon to explain this in detail.
You have to decide on the what you want to do. I only built over 100 guitars and do this for a living and this is something I found that saves a lot of trouble. Some people will sand the top to this angle , and that takes away top material in a area that needs the strength to control shear from the neck.
Martin does something very similar. The mold is pinned to the plate to hold things centered to the disk. Some builders will use just a flat top at the 1 1/2 degree angle . I want to have 1/2 inch string height at the saddle and bridge . The areas also add top stiffness but the complex shape.
I will post the you tube soon. Here are some new binding videos I have had done with the help of Glenn Lasalle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lan2pKWE1Do


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cwJiOVzE_E


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-364fAT89b8

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

That sounds like good advice to me, especially if you're flexible about your expectatons of your first guitar.

The neck angle thing that John Hall is going on about is important and something you should really work at understanding. I recommend you draw out the side profile of the guitar- neck, frets strings etc. to scale (you don't need fancy paper to do this, you can just tape some letter paper together). It's one of those seemingly simple things that can be hard to completely visualize if you don't draw it out. Once you understand what it's all about you can check out the various ways to handle it. Surprisingly, the traditional way to build a classical guitar has a neck angle that goes in the opposite direction of a steel string.

John

one thing I like about molds is being able to work both top and back sides of the rims without having to take it out.

I started 14 years ago with a classical, hence a workboard, but built an outside mold at the same time. They both have their uses during any guitar construction. I recommend having and using both. Why handicap yourself for the sake of tradition? Unless it is important to you, but then you'd have to use pure hide glue, no power tools and fench polish also.

Dave

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God, Family, Carreer

Thanks for all the post, I should of mentioned I am building a steel strung guitar those nylon jobbies are for wussies !

John

I am going to use a mold/mould - the Fox set up looks like a reusable option. However..................

I don't fully understand this neck angle business and what effect sanding the upper bout is all about - I'll start a new post to discuss it.

Thanks all.

John