Official Luthiers Forum!

I am a long way off from binding but need to put an order in anyway so might as well get all the supplies in one go. I have some real nice ebony binding that measures in at .094" and will be using tightbond or LMI glue most likely. I read something in the archives about wood swellage with water-based glues? I only want to order a bit and the right sized bearings for my ebony and the purfling, so what bearing would you use for the binding? Then for .040" purfling add .040 to that bearing size and thats the bearing for the purfling channel?
Thanks!

If you are determined to buy only one router bearing, then I would route your binding channels first then thin your bindings to be just a tiny smidge proud of the channels then bend them. .094" is pretty thick for bindings so you have lots of stock to play with. Mine go on at .06"

The better way is to have a full set of bearings, but I understand they are expensive, but they are a tool you will use again and again and again.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Brock, I want to buy two different bearings, one for the binding and one for the purfling. Or maybe even two for each to have a bit of variance to work with if need be. I just dont want to buy the whole set right now as I have a lot of other things to buy and want to spread the cost over time. My main dilemma in knowing which to buy is the swelling issue.

Ok, here is what I would do then.

I would get a router with an adjustable base on it and cut your bindings with that. I used a set up like this for my first 5 guitars and it works great, you just have to futz with it to get it set up. That way you have infinite possibilities.

The two biggest things to remember when using this type of tool are

1) keep the arm that is touching the side perpendicular to the tangent of the side. This keeps the channel the same depth into the body.

2) On the back you need to account for the dome in the back. (You don't need to worry about it on the top since the radius is so small). I dealt with this by making a angled base plate out of MDF. IIRC the base plate was about 5 degrees. You just want the cutter to be vertical with the sides.

This is a lot easier to do than it sounds. So for about $100 you have a tool that will do virtually anything you need.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Brock, I should of mentioned I will be making an LMI style binding jig.

That is a good system, but you really need a full set of the bearings to make that work well.

Just to give you an example. I always run the bindings at .06" but I am always changing the bearings to get it "just right".

I think my original idea of getting one bit and then thinning your bindings to match is a good plan, but picking the right bearing for the purflings is going to be tough.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

What about buying one for the binding, say .090", and then two or three in the ballpark range of the purfling?

Does anyone experience the binding swelling with waterbased glues??

swelling is so slight so don't fret it. There comes a point where saving pennies will cost you dollars. Binding is one of the areas of fit and finish that will make your guitar look professional or amateurish. I think most of us here will admit to trying to cut costs but found out it cost us more in being unhappy with the outcome and then buying the tool we were looking at in the first place.
I agree .094 is too thick. Most of my bindings are .080 to .060. thick. The LMI jig is fine but you you need the donut for the bottom to work well. There is more than one way to do this but as Brock points out ,you need to maintain square to the sides. The back with the radius and wedge can really toss a bit out.
Take your time and look at what your are doing. If you don't think it looks right , then question it. We are here to help .

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Thanks for the reply. As a beginner binding really is a big deal, there are so many methods and I thought I had done my research but once again find myself wondering if I should be taking another route. Another method I was interested in was the Williams jig with the adjustable single bearing, I found a picture Colin S had posted of this a while ago and it looked really sharp. I just wouldnt know how to implement this adjustable bearing, it looked like a complicated setup. As for thickness, how would I take the binding down thinner, by making a smaller channel and scraping off the excess or better to thin it down first? I do have access to a friends drum sander if that would work.

The binding swelling really isn't much of a problem. It won't swell much, and it will need to be scraped flush anyway. The purfling swelling is more of a problem, but again it won't swell much, maybe .003" or less. You might have trouble bending ebony binding at .094". Like John, and Brock said, I'd thin it to something between .060" and .080".

_________________
I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

I am glad to hear that, someone said binding could swell as much as .015 . What would be the best way to thin it down? Drum sander or a planer? But the real problem now is I am rethinking my method.

You need to sand the binding. A planer will usually just explode it.

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

You can use a edge bearing with the same results on the universal binding machine as you can on the Williams. The Williams is just harder and more costly to build and takes up more space . The universal machine can also be modified to be used as a small pin router. You can also make a type of edge bearing like Mike Doolin uses. Why don't you just us CA to glue the bindings and forget about the water base glue and make life easy on yourself to begin with?

The Doolin link:
http://www.doolinguitars.com/articles/bindrout/
You can also get the Bosch Colt PR10E .
http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-PR10E-Singl ... 300&sr=1-3
And the edge guide bearing PR003.
http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-PR003-Rolle ... 300&sr=1-5
And with some modification the the horizontal depth adjustment you can use it with a 1/4" sriral downcut bit to cut your top purfling channels.
Anyone know when the price on the PR10E went up $20?

Your always a voice of reason Chris, thanks! I didnt know you could simply buy an edge bearing guide specific to the trimmer, is there an edge guide for the porter cable? Would you take the colt over the porter cable anyways? I would really like to build the universal instead of the williams for the reasons you mentioned, and would really prefer to use a spiral downcut with one adjustable bearing rather than a costly bearing set. And yes, I think I will use CA anyways now.

I don't know about the PC but I don't think so as I haven't found one yet. I have a pc310 right now on my Dollin style machine with a bearing I made. I'm not too sure about the DeWalt as they use to have one but have changed thier design to the one that is a make over of the PC910. The Colt I just got about a couple of months ago when it was $20 cheaper and really haven't used it yet. But I think it will be nice for the binding machine and a few other jobs because of the depth adjustment. The bearing out of the box will only cut about 1/16" depth with a 1/4" bit. So you will have to shorten the ends of the horizontal pieces and drill and tap another hole for the locking knob and shorten the adjustment screw so that there is only 1/2" of travel. No big deal though. You will still need to make some kind of shoe for the base for the angle of the back as well as the tapper. You can make something along the line of Mike D's . You will have to figure out how to adapt you setup and you might even be able to use the bosch bearing and adapt it to you binding maching base. You might be able to mount a block or L to the underside of the machine base and mount the bearing to that and not have to do the other modification to the bearing. Where there's a will there's a way. I'm hoping to be able to get the bearing set one day but that $200 + is tuff to get together when you can get by with other stuff. I keep giving Mike bearing setup a look and it's just some shaped Aluminum bar stock. Top plate is the shoe bottom is the bearing. That Doolin's quite a clever guy.