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So now I have to buy another tool, and it can't cut wood.
I realize that I can't sell very well on the internet without a sound clip, or a video clip with good sound.
I don't want to spend a lot, but realize it has to be of good quality.
Will just a recorder do?
What should I do?

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"just a recorder" certainly won't do!

it's really in the mic you use...also the recording has to get to the computer at some point, so why not record directly to digital?...

you don't state where in Texas you live, but I know here in Austin there are Rock and Roll rentals and MusicLab...the advantage to MusicLab is they have onsite facilities and you might be able to do it all there and not have the hassle of acquiring, setting up, and returning whatever you have chosen to use...also, my son in law works there

dunno what the cost would be though...and you haven't stated how many samples you wish to produce and how frequently (yeah, I'm sure the dream is to do a LOT )...the point being there is definitely a cost analysis that needs to be done for you to determine whether or not you wish to purchase or rent...or perhaps when you will want to purchase (being that in the short term perhaps renting is best but in the long term purchasing will be cheaper per sample produced)..also there is the concept of do you enjoy recording and want to be able to produce your own music?

decent kwality recordings can be made pretty easily with a decent sound card and good mic and many times free software (and I'm not talking about pirated software)...multi track stuff entails purchasing software and a good quality audio specific soundcard...

as a note, if you are going to encode the audio to MP3 make sure the bitrate for compression is as high as you can get it...also pay attention to the result as many times certain frequencies simply get lost in the encoding...as an example, I've never been able to get Stairway to Heaven to encode to MP3 and have it sound worth a flip, its something in the frequencies inherent to that piece...

I don't want to go to a studio, and spend time I am already short of.
I want to record a 10 or 20 second sound clip that will show the tone and volume character of my acoustic guitar. I'm not much of a guitar player, but I'll do the best I can.
Then send it directly to a potential customer to evaluate, or upload it to youtube, which I know is a bad option, but sometimes it's all you get.
If a good quality usb mic will work using recording software, ok.
If a field recorder like Zoom is better, then that.
In the meantime, I'll be back in the wood shop.

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Unfortunately the cheapest recorder you can buy is probably better than the speakers on most peoples computers, including my laptop, which I use most of the time. I had a Samson USB mic, but sold it and got a Zoom H4, for portability. The USB mic was also prone to pick up noise, because it was close to my computer. The laptop I had at that time just wasn't good enough for recording. I take my H4 to a quite room to record. E-mail me if you'd like to hear some recording made with my H4.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

an H4 is a handy little device to have, and if you need better quality you can plug a quality microphone into it.

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Frank

http://www.guitarcenter.com/USB-Microph ... ophones.gc

as woodyb notes, computer noise can be an issue so isolating the machine in some fashion is necessary...just make sure that it is able to get some airflow so that it doesn't over heat!...if you have a 'typical' computer then its probably not going to be that loud anyways, but the noise will still need to be taken into consideration...

I'm pretty ignorant of things like usb mics and such...I'm still using my 20+ year old Tascam PE-120 and my wife's EV 747 when she's not singing into it...of course those mics require a mixing board and connection to a soundcard like an Audiophile 2496...and of course the recording software...I'm also not up on the free software as I'm interested in recording stuff far beyond a simple sample of one guitar...

I had been eyeing the Zooms for some time. If the H2 would work well, they are about 100 less than the H4.

Do you edit the clip in the recorder, or is there software provided to do any clipping in the computer? Or do you get other software?

The bigger question is: do customers need to see a video with sound, like on youtube, or are they willing to trust you are playing the guitar in question?

Thanks for the input so far guys, I'm really out of my element here.

Woody, you've got mail.

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I do not own one of these but Tascam tends to build good stuff and it seems like something you could do even more with it if you ever had the need. TASCAM DP004.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001JJFR8Q/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=3241858631&ref=pd_sl_655omltb9s_e


Bob

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If brute force doesn't work you're not using enough of it!

For around $40, you can get Cakewalk recording studio software for use on your PC. Even with the zoom recorder, you're going to have to transfer the recording to a CD somehow-- either analog playback onto a standalone CD recorder or digital file transfer into the computer. Here's the kicker-- your computer will probably record better than the zoom recorder will. You're going to get better sound with the computer and probably come out just as cheap, if not cheaper, than the zoom. You'll need the Cakewalk program (about $40 or so, IIRC), a small mixing board (about $50 from musicians friend if they're still on sale), and a couple of microphones for stereo recording (you can get good matched pairs from musicians friend as well).

If you're really going after sound quality, the program is the way to go-- several factors here. Recording to the Zoom, you're probably getting 16 bit / 44.1 kHz at best. Chances are if your computer is newer it's capable of recording at 24 bit / 48 kHz or better. More bits and a higher sampling rate is going to give you a truer picture of the sound of the instrument (closer shape to the actual analog sound wave). Another reason is EQ. The goal I have in recording (since I learned more about how all this works) is to make my guitars sound like my guitars-- in other words, when the CD is played back I want to hear the guitar and not a recording of the guitar. To do that, you're going to have to use some EQ (as in is that guitar really that boomy or is the microphone or mic placement introducing that effect that needs to be compensated for). The software will also allow you to trim/edit files into snippets or mp3's suitable for mailing or placing on a website. Also, with the zoom you can't control mic placement whereas with the computer you can-- and mic placement is critical.

I'm hoping to do some recording with the D-14 Lance built for me this week and I'll be happy to send you a clip when it's done if that will help. I did some recording with one of Brock's Highlander guitars a while back and I wish I had known then what I have learned since then. I'd have done a MUCH better job with the recording-- Sorry Brock!

FYI-- another trick you can use is if you have a working stereo reel to reel recorder, recording your solo piece to that and then into the computer can give you a warmth you won't get from the computer itself. Lots of fun stuff you can do!!!

Please let me know if there's anything this amateur can do to help!

John Creech

I can't see anybody buying a serious guitar without playing it. I use a Canon Power Shot S5IS for my Youtubes. I think it does an hour Video depending on the size of theflash card. The mic seems to be pretty sensitive and adjust the level automaticly. It takes macro photos too. I think it would do fine for your use. I use the windows movie maker that comes with windows to edit. I suppose you could also use other software to even edit the sound. If someone is going to be listening to the clips over their computer I don't see the point of going to too much work to produce a recording quality clip.

With utmost respect, my opinion is different. I think most folks, okay well at least me, who comission a custom build are after the best sound they can get. If a builder can offer a CD recording or a high quality mp3 that has been mixed/mastered and offers as true a representation of the sound as possible, I think it really demonstrates the builder's overall comittment to quality. As for listening over the computer, I used to think that it didn't matter. Increasingly, I find that many people have great speakers integrated into their computer system or even have their computer integrated into their stereo system. Some are even using high quality headphones. Granted, I'm an audiophile as well, so I probably am a little hyper-critical of sound since developing that interest.

I don't have one of these but heard they are great. Thats the zoom h4 i'm talking about. I plan on getting one when i have some extra cash.

Hello David,

A lot has been said by now, so I'll just throw my 2 cents at you even though they might be slightly off-topic.

I would go out and look for a recording engineering student, who would probably like to give good use to his equipment and record you playing the guitar. I would also recomend you to usea two microphone setting, for some ambience, but I'm dang picky about recordings.

I agree with Chris Paulick when he's saying that if one is about to buy a serious guitar then he is going to want to try it, but if you want to use the audio clip to get your customers interested in your work, they're better be dang good. The same goes for the photos taken: good quality (no high JPEG compression ratios), avoid using flash, learn how to improvise decent lighting conditions and do not over-edit your pictures as it is too easy to screw up.

To my eyes, this is a nice picture:



It was taking in my bedroom with an obsolete Nikon digital camera. I used photoshop to balance the tones and to correct the excessive yellow tones caused by tungsten lighting conditions. It is the same picture I'm using in my avatar, which is over-edited (nasty red tones and too dang sharpened).

Good luck,
Celso

I'm not a fan of over doctored pics or sound clips.

REAL pics with no photoshop tell no lies. If I see a lot of editing, I'm instantly wary..... What are you trying to hide?

as for soundclips, I need to get a new mic, bu it is very high on my must get list.

Audacity is a free download that lets you multitrack if you need to. it'll also export to MP3

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My soundclick xx luthier blog xx luthier soundclick

Here's a youtube that was done dry with a camera that only records 3 minutes. If anything he's too close to the camera mic but you sure get what the sound of that guitar is like. No doctoring up and unpluged.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3xhXHt9ubg
By the way that's Mario Proulx playing his personal guitar.
So I say get yourself a fairly good camera and see how it goes and if it works. If it won't do it for you then at least you will have a good camera for videos and stills. I like that Canon Power Shot.

These are all great ideas and strategies guys, thanks a lot.

My pictures seem to be ok, or at least I'm not getting feedback that troubles me.

Every time I ship a guitar, the owner has not played it, and has a trial period to reject it. Thankfully that return has never happened. On a custom built guitar, the customer has already made a commitment, and a sound clip has not been a necessity.

In the case of a guitar NOT custom built, but a "stock" guitar, which I build on a regular basis, I'm finding a sound clip is more a necessity. In this particular case the customer (tentitive) is in Europe, making the shipping and possible return much more problematic.

I'm going to try to borrow a Zoom and try it out. Maybe I'll post the test here and you guy critique it.

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A recommendation is to get someone really good to play the instruments! If your not a real good guitarplayer yourself that is. Some people just play the guitars themself and it dont sound so good, and this is what the potentional buyer hears, so get a good player. second just get a decent stereo recorder and a good room to play in as this will also be recorded. if you want to have a real good recording it will cost you lots !! so with this in mind, get a decent stereo recorder.
if your making a video make sure not to make a "Home video" try to make it look pro in anyway you can. what looks home-made or simple, the potential buyer will look at and go -oh simple cheap homemade video, are his guitars as simple to ? what appears as pro is lookt at as quality as will your guitars be lookt at. ame with photos !! get professional shots of the guitar.

Lars.

I'm going with Lars on this one. To me it is not about hiding the things I don't like about my guitars, it is about hiding my normally awful lighting conditions and shitty camera that do affect the way my intrument is perceived. And if you can make it look sexy or appealing by choosing a nice background, you're not cheating anyone. I just take the guitar selling as seriously as the guitar building.

I did not know David's circumstances, so it makes more sense to me not having time to go to a studio or whatnot. I'm yet to define a nice and simple workflow to record and take pictures of my instruments.

I have noticed that my USB condenser mic does pick up quite a bit of noise from my computer.... My computer at home is particularly noisy.... so it doesn't help.

I think my brain tunes it out..... but when you look at the frequency spectrum.... it is quite noisy.

I figured this out when I was tracking down why a couple chords sounded kinda funky when playing the guitar sitting in front of the computer, but not when playing guitar sitting on the couch. What I found is that there are several large peaks from the fans, monitor, and such. Your brain is pretty good at tuning it out most of the time... but it will make some chords sound kinda funky....

I think getting rid of this background noise is a giant hurdle when fooling around with mics that plug into computers.

Good luck

John

I usually use one or two blankets to tame my noisy computer. I also lock my two cats in the kitchen

Here's a quick clip I did just so you can hear how my Canon records. The video is a little grainy but that's because of the low light. You can definatly hear what the guitar sounds like. I'll be taking the video down in a couple of days I think unless you all feel it might help someone out later on making a choice in this matter. But I think you could send someone something like that and they would have a good true idea of how your guitars sound.

The Zoom recorders are a pretty great deal. I don't think you could be disappointed with them. For what you're looking at (hit a button, get a quality recording) the H2 is a pretty smokin' deal as you can get them for a smidge over $150 to $180 in the US. The H4 can be had for about $100 more if you like doodads (stereo mics, input jacks, 4-track recording, mic and amp modeling built in, etc etc).

And +5 on what someone said about getting a great guitarist playing on your recordings. I'm passable, but me on a masterful instrument still sounds like junk compared to some guys I know playing a $200 beater!

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

We have all trained our ears/brains to be able to listen to music through crappy equipment, from the old hand-held transistor radios - if you're old enough to remember that - to a barely adequate set of speakers on a computer with a "sound card" on a chip on the motherboard. Somehow, we can still tell good from bad, and we know it will sound a lot better in person or with high quality equipment.

I agree that you can't start with a crappy recording. Crappy recordings through less-than-adequate hardware equals noise.

I think you need to record in stereo (two mics), or the output just doesn't sound right. I can see why people are getting excited about the Zoom H4n (about $350), because you'll spend more (closer to $400) for a pair of relatively inexpensive condenser mics and a 2-channel preamp. For example:

MXL 993 (Stereo pair of microphones) for $180
M Audio DMP 3 (dual channel mic preamp) for $160
Add a pair of quality 25 foot mic cables (far enough away from the computer so you don't get too much computer fan noise recorded), and you'll be at about $400. Oh, if recording into your computer, you can use Audacity, which is very good recording software, and it is free.

The audio on most video camcorders usually sounds "boxy" and "tinny" to my ears, but when you have an extra $1000 burning a hole in your pocket, then you can take the stereo output from your mic preamp, and plug it right into you new Canon Vixia HV30, and produce video that rivals $150,000 studio cameras from just a decade ago.

Once you get all set up, and have tested your recording equipment and software, you can get a friend that can can play the snot out of your guitars to come over and make them sing. If you're just not a good player, and you know it, then record someone who is. This is sales and marketing and a real player can make your guitars sound like a million bucks - well worth the dinner for two or case of favored beverage that it will cost you.

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

5-7 years ago, Michael Wong's clips using two Octavia MK19's and a camcorder got a lot of people interested in a lot of guitars, and that's really what you want to do. Does anybody from the 13th Fret remember them? The clips may or may not sell a guitar for you, but they'll introduce you to a lot of people and help with your public recognition.

I think people respond equally well to the beauty of a great player playing a beautiful piece or the relatability of an everyman enjoying the guitar. Video alongside professionally done photos is a very powerful portfolio.

FWIW, I've sold most of my pedal board this spring and have $700 worth of new effects thanks to Passenger95's YouTube demos.