Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi all.

I'm currrently working on a neck reset on a Washburn D60SW and I'm struggling. I can't seem to find the air pocket between the dovetail and the neck block. I'm assuming it should be a little short of the 15th fret.

Anyone else did a reset on a similar guitar?

My alternative is to remove the neck entirely to find out what the neck joint is really like.

Any help will be appreciated.

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Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)

I think that's going to be a 5 dowel butt joint; forget steaming. Last one I did, tuned the guitar real high to stress the joint, blew on the heel w/ a heat gun, and worked the neck back and forth laterally. Once the joint was open, I clamped the guitar facedown, stressing the joint open, and cut through the dowels w/ a thin pullsaw. Put it back together w/hangerbolts.

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https://soundcloud.com/jeffreylsuits/he ... -runnin-13

dang!

And you are sure it was the same model?

And didn't the heat gun damage the lacquer?

Thanks a lot!

_________________
Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)

If you have any buddies in the health care field sneak it in and X-ray the joint. That will tell you what's going on.
Terry

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

I am in the middle of a reset on a newer Wahburn DS10. It's a beater that I got almost for free because of the reverse set of the neck. I couldn't find the dovetail pocket after 3 tries, so I sawed off the fretboard above the 15th fret (The way they used to do it!). There is a dovetail, but it's so tight there isn't a pocket and the neck has been pushed into the mortise so hard that the wood fibers are distorted. I'm now going to do the change-over to a bolt-on neck that Frank Ford describes on "Frets.com" under "Impossible neck reset".
I'm not saying that this is what you should do, only relating my experience with a Washburn from China.
Art

Thanks for the info guys.

Terry: Unfortunately, X-ray is not an option. It would be cool to try it though!

Art: Thanks, that also might be what is going on.

If anyone else can give me more info, you are welcome to do so!

In the mean time, I'll try contacting Washburn about it.

_________________
Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)

Jeez, yet another AGS! (Asian Guitar Surprise) Maybe that's a, "power dovetail"?

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https://soundcloud.com/jeffreylsuits/he ... -runnin-13

Airport works well too, and if you go at a non-peak time TSA'll let you run it thru...

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

Well,
I got the neck sliced off and it looks like the dovetail has been epoxied in, There is also a 3/8" spline that is inserted into the dovetail just below the truss rod and almost a deep as the dovetail. Maybe it's for keeping the heel-stack aligned during glue-up or to keep it from coming apart. Something to ponder. . .
I also had a heck of a time getting the truss rod to come out of it's slot under the fretboard overhang that was removed. You need to take off the adjustment nut before removal and it's still a fight to get it out.
Let us know what you hear back from Washburn.
Art

Ok, I got an answer from Washburn: they don't know. The guitar was made in the 80s in a Japan factory that is closed now and they don't have any records of the guitar specs.

So I proceeded along (with the customer's agreement) at partly ungluing the fretboard from the neck in order to be able to lift the extension as much as possible, thus being able to see the joint. Turns out there is no dovetail nor tenon! So Jeffrey was right since the beggining! It's a dowel joint.

The customer knows the situation and the (only) solution to this. I'm waiting to hear from him before I move on.

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Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)

Good luck! Keep us posted!

And the winner is...Jeffrey!

5 dowels joint it was.

Thanks for your help everyone. I'll now proceed with bolting on this joint!

_________________
Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)

Alain,
Did you remove the fingerboard to slice the neck off? WHat glue do you think they used?
Art

Yes I did, otherwise I would have had to saw the trussrod too. I didn't feel safe with Jeffrey's heatgun method (not that it's a bad one, it's just that I didn't trust myself.)



Looks like some sort of Titebond.

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Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)

Thanks Alain!

I can always get close enough to the trussrod, so that the little bit of wood left around it, breaks loose. I still use a Fein Multimaster ("as seen on TV!") and some special blades I've made from jewelers slitting saws, when needed.

It just this moment struck me, that a way to align the holes for the bolts (I use hangerbolts), would be to drill two holes through the neckblock, and use dowel centers to transfer them to the heel. I've used some templates that I'd made, and also have used a flexible extesion & hex shank bit, to drill into the heel when I have the neck clamped back on the guitar. I'm going to try dowel centers, the next saw job I do.

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https://soundcloud.com/jeffreylsuits/he ... -runnin-13

When you stress the joint loose that way--and it doesn't take much, believe me!--you only have to saw through the dowels, much cleaner.

I have a Michael Kelly Club Deluxe ABG, which I'm sure will need a reset not too far down he line; the comapny tells me it's a hide glued dovetail, but I'm doubtful...the new ones have a Babicz joint.

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https://soundcloud.com/jeffreylsuits/he ... -runnin-13

Yes I'm sure. Only I was afraid to damage the finish with the heat gun. And since the back and sides have been stained, spot repair on the finish was bound to be a failure. So indeed some part of the saw kerf might show on the joint, so I'll have to fill in with something but overall I'm quite happy with how clean the cut was made. I used a japanese pull saw, it only took 5 minutes to saw through the heel.

What's a Babicz joint? is it the dowel joint?

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Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)

Come to think of it, does anybody know why on earth would one use such a joint in the fist place? Every way I turn it around in my head, it should be a much more difficult joint to make compared to all other technics used. Aligning the 5 dowels while making sure the neck is well aligned must be quite hard.

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Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)

I'm sure they had large, impressive, and very expensive machines, to knock 'em out. They're not like we folk...

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https://soundcloud.com/jeffreylsuits/he ... -runnin-13

[quote=
What's a Babicz joint? is it the dowel joint?[/quote]

A height-adjustable neck joint treatment, by Jeff Babicz, now being licensed to some companies, Martin among them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGPzHT9mMM4

Gawd, what an ugly sounding quackstick, though!

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https://soundcloud.com/jeffreylsuits/he ... -runnin-13

Yes, probably.



Thanks for the info!

_________________
Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)