Official Luthiers Forum!

So recently I've come to the conclusion that i am absolutely obsessed with guitars. More of an acoustic guy... not so much of an electric player. I really want to become a luthier more than anything in the world. if I could build my own instruments I would be happy for the rest of my life. Does anybody know how I can get started? I live in the east bay area in California. There are a lo9t of luthiers around here but no one does apprenticeships. Can somebody help me find a way in to become a luthier? I know that if someone teaches me, I could really do well. Its a passion I have for guitars and luthiers.
if you have advice or help, let me know whats up/

One of those guys will let you just look, won't they?

Have you read a lot? Read!
Get some of the GAL "big red books"
Read the Cumpiano & Natelson book.
Read everything on the net. There are a lot of "I built this" sites.

Gotta have a "shop", a place to work.
Gotta have some tools. Which ones? how many? how much? HA! read some more.
Easiest way to begin working the tone wood is to buy a complete kit, serviced. Who from? Read some more!

Sound like work? Heck no, it's the best fun you can have.

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Apprenticeships are almost unheard of any more. And most that do exist the apprentice earns no pay and sometimes pays for the education. There are at least 30 good schools of lutherie in the US and many more so so. Some are semester long classes some offer 2 week crash courses but those are really intended more for the hobbyist.

Just curious as to how old you are. This craft pays very little except to a very select few.

Not to be discouraging but is a true fact that 90% of those that try this as a profession fail in the first year.

I would start by repairing. Get fret and nut tools to learn set-ups, basic repairs, etc... go deeper from there. Learn to get good at one thing at a time as you buy/make tools and jigs. Start making sawdust. Yes, read and study - Everything. Its a nice dream, but you need to find out if you really like the daily work ... while you work another job.

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Tom Krebs

build a guitar for yourself. if it turns out ok, and you're pretty confident you won't wreck any friendships, you could build guitars for your friends. offer the labor for free and have them buy the materials. you gain experience and they get guitars.

do you have any woodworking experience?

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"...you have to get over your strict adherence to your largely imagined notion of absolute perfection..."

Try
www.lessonsinlutherie.com

It's in Ft.Bragg Ca.
Mike

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Mike Collins

Tommygoat has very good advice - if you're near a metropolitan area, you may be able to score some part-time work doing setups and repairs for a local music store. You learn to work on deadline, and utilize a lot of different skills.

In the meantime, built a kit guitar or two, making sure you cross the "finish line" (pun intended) and then start from scratch (i.e. lumber) and do it again. All while working on repairs part-time, and your "real job" full time.

Even a course for the hobbiest could be worthwhile - you can ask more questions, and get more answers, in a much shorter period of time than any internet searching.

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The member formerly known as erikbojerik....

I disagree with the first part of your response but agree with the second. If you want to build, then build, don't repair. Repairing is way more difficult than building. No where does he say he wants to be pro, he just states that he wants to build guitars.

Kit building is the ideal way to start in my opinion, especially for the complete novice who has no tools. Building serviced kits allows you to grow into your tool collection and add as necessary.

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

read, read and read, then build a kit,

if you look in the right places, you can purchase a few book (cumpiano's and kinkeads i think, are two of the best for acoustic guitars), then tool out your workshop and purchase a kit, all for under £200.

little investment lots of experience, learning, etc. lets you find out if u actually like it or not (which you will)

have fun!

jonny

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"Anything that happens, happens. Anything that in happening causes something else to happen, causes something else to happen. Anything that in happening happens again, happens again. Though not necessarily in that order." Douglas Adams

Hi Frank,

Are you sure you want to do this? It's a slippery slope!!

You might want to start by coming along to a Northern California Luthier's (NCAL) group meeting - you'll be able to meet and talk with a bunch of professional/semi-pro/amateur luthiers there. PM me and I'll get you set up on the email list if you're interested.

Regards,
Dave F.

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Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"

But it's no use building a guitar if you have no concept of setup, why certain things are done/built the way they are, e.t.c. That sort of experience can only come from time spent pulling things apart & observing & making adjustments. I'm not saying you would have to do this in order to build a guitar but to build a good guitar that you could show off to generate more work from (which it sounds like Garay IV) wants to do, then some time doing these things is essential IMO. No use building a beautiful looking axe if the neck is set wrong to the body, action all wrong or the top collapses because you've shaved a brace just a little too fine because you weren't aware of the forces acting on it or what it's part in the total construction is.
Gratay, as most have mentioned, read as much as you can, ask if you can 'hang out' at one of those many Californian luthier's shop's. Explain that you have this passion & most should probably let you look over their shoulder, give you tips & even after a while let you do a simple job or two or, if you show enough enthusiasm and aptitude, they might let you help in some more involved tasks. But you should have a basic knowledge of the construction first (those books again!) so that you can ask the right questions.
As others have also said, building a kit guitar is good experience, even if it doesn't quite turn out how you would like it you would have learn't several lessons from this one build alone & keep asking questions, no matter how silly they may seem, on forums such as this one.Most Luthier's are happy to share their knowledge & help another lover of the craft
Good Luck.

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Nick Oliver

http://www.oliver-guitars.com

I must respectfully disagree with your thesis that it's impossible to grasp the concepts of setup and why certain things are done without pulling things apart. You most certainly learn these things through reading (books and internet) and examination of good guitars. In fact, I'd state that you learn much less about why certain things are done through repair than you do through 'book' study of why certain things are done.

The other problem with going down the repair road is that under no circumstances should you be starting your repair work on guitars that are any good lest you destroy someone's pride and joy. Yes there's lot's of examples of what not to do on those types of guitars but almost nothing on how to do things right.

Ask any repair guy if he thinks design for repair is important and they'll tell you heck yes! Ask any guitar player and how will they answer?

I'm not trying to knock repair, as I said, it's tough. Tougher I think, than to build from scratch. Just sayin' that if you want to build you should build. If you want to repair, repair. If you want to get good at setup, setup guitars (hi Hesh!). If you want to build, repair and setup guitars, then you should build, repair, and setup guitars.

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

I can see your point Andy and you state some vaild comments & totally agree with your last paragraph. I also agree with learning as much a person can from books and forums such as this one and I'm not advocating that we should come at luthiery from a purely repair background! God forbid!! The only problem I have with coming at it from a read then build approach is that in an ideal world everything goes to plan, the books are written by people that have theorised and built for years and so have a handle on the craft & can make a build look/sound relatively simple. But you must come across it yourself that occassionally that something in a build can go wrong or it can throw you a curve ball, without previous experience of past builds (where Gratay sounds as though he's coming from) where a similar problem has occured or having seen a similar problem on a repair job you may have come across and is not written in any construction book. How do what to watch out for or how to fix it when it does happen? Thankfully we do have the wonders of the internet now, as you so rightly pointed out, & there are many only too willing to help out if we post with a problem!
I come from a tool & diemaking background (30 years) and have seen, & been expected to make things from drawings completed by university trained (book trained) draughtsmen, some are good & have a flair for draughting but some designs you look at and know straight away it either won't work or is going to be problematic, it works on paper but 'in the real world' it doesn't & can cause several headaches later to correct. The best drawings, I have found, are from draughtsmen that have come from an engineering background, they know the pitfalls of certain designs because they have that experience at the bench behind them and design them to work.
Hopefully I'm not coming across as being bullish or disrespectful or especially not inflamatory to your opinion, I love open discussion and can be a very valid learning tool if we are open to others idea's. I just feel (& it is just my opinion ) that as luthier's Amateur or professional, we should be as rounded as we can in order to build a good quality instrument. Most professional luthiers don't have the luxury of purely building, they have to repair to supplement an income so you would (if paying them) expect them to have the chops to repair as well, I agree that a 'newby' shouldn't start out on good quality instruments but by the same reasoning a 'newby' builder shouldn't say yes to building a guitarist a guitar after having just read some books about their craft.
Having ranted on can I add this consilitory (?) note...... by the same token there are some very good instruments coming out of the workshops of people who have read as much as possible on building and theory and then built.
Bring on the tomatoes

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Nick Oliver

http://www.oliver-guitars.com

The OP sounds (without stating explicitly) that he wants to make a go of it as a career, not a hobby. Repair allows you to learn while making a buck at the same time.

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The member formerly known as erikbojerik....

I guess I am thinking the following:

1. Ready to drop everything and take the plunge. "Quit your day job" so to speak. If this is the case -- seek out a Tech school that offers Luthier training. There are several. Be prepared to go to wherever the school is so that you can get training. Also, consider contacting Martin guitars -- they have "Guitar repair tech" classes that teaches repair with the goal of doing contract repair work with Martin.

2. Not going to quit the day job. Want to try this out as a hobby first. Welcome to the club.... You are in good company. There are several good books out there. Consider buying one of the many fine kits available out there and give "Building a Guitar" a crack. You could also start with buying a book or two about repairs and then fixing up an Ebay beater.

Good luck

John

Or they have a day job like me.

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---Steve

I started by assembling some Fender-style electric guitars and basses from parts I bought online and through Ebay. Learned how to set them up well, and after about 18 months decided to try building a bass from scratch. That came out well, so I started building these things and marketing them through craft shows, music festivals, and the Internet. After two years of doing that I decided to try an acoustic, and acquired a semi-serviced dreadnaught kit one piece at a time through Ebay, LMI, and StewMac. After that all my acoustics (seven more) have been from scratch.

But as someone else advised, I read a lot, studied a lot, and visited other luthiers - Lance McCollum, Hank Mauel, Gary Garcia, and Harvey Leach, and asked lots of questions of lots of people. I found that I could learn a fair amount by just studying well-built guitars too. I found a lot of resources online - like this forum. Just looking at the tutorials section is a great way to learn How Things Are Done.

35 years of woodworking as a hobby didn't hurt either, and spending a few years in my youth as a model railroader helped too.

Read, study, experiment, and don't be afraid to waste some wood along the way. And start with something simple, then add complexity with each project as you build confidence in your abilities.

--Steve

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---Steve

Send me $28,000.00 dollars and I will rush ship you your Luthier certifcation certificate on genuine simulated calf skin priority mail. Act fast and i will send you a second one just for additional shipping and handeling of $19.95

I'm in a unique position. I am ready to go on my first scratch (or any) build. I was bit by the build bug last year touring Tim McKnight’s workshop. Oh the wood
I decided restoration was a cheap way to start. I started with a $75 100 year old Parlor that before we were born some drunk tried to fix the loose bracing and cracks by dumping wood glue down the sound hole. The Fret board was toast, the binding missing.....
I read Alex Willis's book while on Vacation in January. Each time I read it I understood a little less lol but decided to proceed. As I pulled apart the little guitar I started gathering tools and knowledge. Heck there is a learning curve on sandpaper! While learning a few $500 boxes from LMI and Stew Mac showed up to make it right. Heck a Fretboard radius sanding block (the long aluminum one, very well built I'll add) will set you back $125! 4 months ago I had no concept of "radiusing the fret board"! I made a Propane torch bender for the binding. I came out of the basement yapping for two days about bending wood...Blah blah blah I'ma wood bender" I felt like a Wizard hee! And someday I will use the pile of busted binding that we will call learning curve wood. I learned how to steam a neck off. With a coffee pot! McGyvier I am. Make a fretboard. Stop a fretboard saw with the bone of my thumb......
I just bought the turn key shop that was advertised here. My concept of "slide into this" approach is now over lol. I have one more month of working my business and over working, and then I have 3 light months to figure this out. I'll have my Perot Ears on at A.S.I.A! Then espionage pictures at McKnight Jam.....um I mean nice pictures for Mary's album. Ya thats it. Thats the ticket
I have a plan to build Sonic "7, 9 and 12 string Parlors". Right now I have benders and forms in OM and Dred. I guess I'll start there!
In a pile of Guitar related jokes I read and will always keep in mind; The definition of an optimist. A Luthier with a Mortgage!
The cost of tools and wood are daunting, even with the great break I got! But, I have never had so much fun making my head hurt.

If starting over, here is how I would do it.

1 - Win lottery, or get a really rich better half.

2 - Build guitars til money runs out. Hopefully retirement kicks in first, or better half finds lots more money.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"