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Just curious on your thoughts about building an entire guitar with thick CA vs something like Titebond or LMI white glue or HHG. I realize there are definite issues with repairing a guitar built with CA and staining of the untreated wood. But what about sound, longevity etc?

Just curious

Richard

I seem to remember that a reputable luthier has done it, but I can't remember who.

I'm pretty sure Tom Ribekke did it years ago.

I think Kevin Gallagher might have done it as well...or maybe it was that he built a guitar in some bizarre short period of time, like 40 hours or something. Nevermind...I have no idea.

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

40 hours?











what took him so long

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My only thought would be expensive.
I think I have about $10.00 worth of CA in the Rosette and Bindings alone....
Those are the main culprits of heavy use, so $15 - $20.00
worth of CA on a guitar wouldn't be outside of the realm of possibilities.

Otherwise, it is certainly strong enough....
They use it all the time in Model Airplane making..... and the end result of structural failure
on one of those things is pretty severe... Straight into the ground at 100 MPH.

Another heretical idea.....
I have poked around in several cheap Asian beater guitars....
They seem to be doing quite a bit of "Inside the Box" gluing with
Hot Glue. Of course, it would also be handy if you wanted to
glue Felt or Beads or a little Hat or something to the outside of the guitar....

Good luck

John

John Mayes was the one who built the one-day guitar. I know of a couple builders that take less than 40 hours, standard, to build a guitar just as normal practice.

I know a guy who built a Les Paul in the early eighties completely with CA...it's still fine. You'll spend a lot less on glue if you buy it in full-size bottles instead of the little squirt ones. I get mine in 250ml bottles.

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

I don't see any good reason to use it instead of titebond or hhg.It probably won't do anything for sound or durability over titebond or hhg anyway and would cost alot more as well.Just my 2 cents on useing it.

$10 of CA on a rosette and binding? ouch!!!!! Really?

I buy 16 oz of med thick and 16 oz of extra thin for $32 per bottle. I have pore fill at least 10 guitars, bound at least 20, I have finished three test necks with CA as the entire finish system and at least a hundred miscellaneous glue-up jobs with one 16 oz bottle of med. CA and have yet to use ½ of that bottle. The most elaborate rosette I have ever done there is no way I could have use 1/16 of one oz of CA to glue up and it had 12 segments each segment was 4 pieces of purfling, one wood ring segment. Then it was surrounded wit 2 rings of abalone and abalone sprockets between each segment, all glued using CA. there is no way I could use $10 of CA on a rosette and binding. Even if buying CA in 2 oz bottles at you local hobby shack that $15 or so at the high end. You should be able to get several rosette and binding jobs out of a 2oz bottle.

Back when I did the two week course with Charles Fox, there was one guy that was about a half a day behind
the rest of us because of a serious mistake he made on the boat. As a result he was not ready when we epoxied
our FB's on. To make a long story short, Charles worked with him to help him catch up and they opted to glue the FB
on with CA glue. I'm curious to know how that worked out for him since Charles said he never tried it. All in all that
guitar turned out looking and sounding great right off the bench.

Here's a link to where I get my CA in the large bottles. It's the same stuff Charles Fox uses and the price is extremely
reasonable IMO for what it's worth.

http://store.houseofhobbies.com/sacicagl.html

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Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

Michael,

Might I ask where you get 16 oz. bottles of CA for $32. I wouldn't mind patronizing that suppler.

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Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

I wasn't expecting to use as much.... and the stuff I got was the 1oz bottles at Home Depot -- which are pretty pricey.
Also, being new at Inlay.... I ended up flooding it in, then scraping most of it back off... then doing it again...

I gotta say, for inlaying veneer strips into rosettes and bindings.... it is absolutely great.

Going forward, I will look into the large bottles.

Thanks

John

I will look up the url. they are a Starbond wholesaler. That is how I found them, googeling Starbond CA it has been many many months since bought any. The price may have gone up now but I can't see it being more than $42 for 16 oz.

http://ptscoshop.com/starbond_cyanoacrylate_(super_glue).htm

Nope the price is still $32 for 16 oz even less in quanitys. You also get a 2 oz bottle, flat cap and an application cap plus a baggie of capillary tips per bottle for that price. that work out to $4 per 2 oz bottle. Sure beats $10-$15 by a mile and this is the best CA I have ever used.

Thanks for the link Michael, as usual you've been a great help and I greatly appreciate it.

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Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

If I tried to build an entire guitar with CA I'd have my fingers glued to......EVERYTHING

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
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Jean Larrivee uses it for joining rosewood backs etc. according to one of the big red books.

Kevin has.
If I recall correctly, he had a client that was in a mega hurry and needed another
guitar. He was a professional performer. Kevin kicked it out using just CA.
I think it must have been 5 years ago when I first heard that story and IIRC the guitar
at that time was 10 years old and going strong.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Being that CA is very brittle when dried i don't see any advantage in it for a whole build. It serves it purpose for somethings but i wouldn't use it for gluing up backs, sides or any other structurally important things.
P.S if you search the archive there is another older post on this exact subject. I can't find it but i know its there.

I've repaired several back seam seperations on Larrivee guitars. I don't know if they were glued with CA or he's went to CA to prevent this. I believe they reinforce the back joint now but they didn't use to.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

To add credence to what Todd said consider bamboo flyrods. Glued with about every adhesive known but most of the old ones used Resourcesonal and before that hide glue. Too very "brittle" glues. With the extrem and repeated flexing you would thing the glue would just crack, break, give up but they don't Thin glue lines and tight joints.
Link

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

I'd posted here about building a guitar using CA glue for every joint for a friend years ago.
His guitar had been smashed in a car accident on a Tuesday and he needed a guitar by Thursday
night before he left for a leg of a tour. I got started on Wednesday morning and, by Thursday
morning, had a guitar ready to finish.

I did a quick oil finish on it, strung it up and had it ready for him to be here for the final
set up and pickup install early Thursday afternoon.

That was more than fifteen years ago now and he still uses it to lead the worship music at his
church every Wednesday and Sunday. He toured extensively using that one day guitar for almost
seven years and it has been around the world a dozen or more times without a mishap. It has a
very cool vintage look from the very light finish being able to be worn and all of the marks that
tell its life story, but it plays and sounds great and its owner has told me on more than one
occasion that the whole experience of having it built so quickly and by a friend has made it his
favorite guitar.

The guitar was built using East Indian Rosewood for the back and sides and a Western Red
Cedar top, Sitka bracing throughout, a one piece Mahogany neck, Ebony bridge and board, Koa
binding throughout and the typical Mahogany blocks for butt and neck joint.

Would I recommend using CA glue to build on a regular basis? Not on a bet, but in a pinch it
can work for more than we typically use it for. I explained to this player that the guitar might
only make it through the leg of his tour at hand at the time, but it surprised me and has been
able to stick it out long enough to become part of a very cool relationship between a player and
a very unique guitar built under very unique circumstances.


Oh...and....by the way....40 hours isn't out of reach for most builders to complete a guitar in.
At least those with some experience. I've done many in much less, but you're hustling when you
do. Most guys who claim to build in 40 hours or less, though, are having many of the parts made
outside of their own shops like fingerboards wit slotting, neck blanks, kerfed linings and things
of that sort. I make everything here in my shop, by myself and do every operation on my own and
that 40 hours includes the making of all parts needed to build the guitar. I also do all of my own
inlay and cut it all and inlay it completely by hand, no CNC work, no shopping work out. That's
not the norm anymore, but we all do what we need to do and like to do.

I typically allow much more time for every guitar just because it doesn't pay to hustle when a
player is laying out their hard earned money for a guitar.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

The goopy looking stuff you see in cheaper guitars is probably a hot polyurethane glue. These glues are distributed by 3M I believe (and probably others) and are used to apply appliques and other non structural parts on cabinets & furniture. This type of glue does not have good strength and you get dark glue lines with it.

I know a guy who finished an entire electric guitar with CA. He was using a downdraft table to draw all the fumes away, but he said that it made a great finish. Similar story...short lead time, etc..and that's what they ended up doing.

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http://www.PeakeGuitars.com

Like I said earlier I have been experimenting with necks finish with medium viscosity CA. I have to say the results are very good so far. The film rubs out well buffs to an incredibly clear gloss. The surface is hard smooth and very low friction. Time will tell if this will work out or not but I like what I see right now.
My application method started out as just applying a bit to the surface and spreading with my finger (in a nitril glove) and a credit card. Recently I found some cheap 1/2" wide polypropylene brushes that can be cleared after use with acetone. They have made application easier.

It was actually two days (sans finish) but who's counting

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com