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I am french polishing my guitar body right now, looks good , but I dont know when to stop and how long to rub. done a few hours for a few days now haha. getting tired in my fingers . when will I know I am done ? the top looks nice but I have not started the spiriting off yet. Would it be possible to get a short tutorial from some of our masters in here . I have seen some use long strokes and some use the rubbing and some both. "I am rubbing like crasy haha, well eights and rubbing to be precise. should I stop pnce I have gone over the top once or should I go on and on for as long as I want per day ? is there a good time to stop per day ?

So far I rubbed it 2 days. waited for 3 days then rubbed it for perhaps 4 days more then let it sit for almost 3 weeks. so now I will start again but need a toot or advice.

Sincerely Lars.

Hi Lars,

Are you using any guides off the internet? if youre not then to get started Id reccomend the Milburn Brothers tutorial....its where I got started:

http://www.milburnguitars.com/fpbannerframes.html

My technique is based on the Milburn Brothers but Im also influenced by Robbie OBrien's excellent finishing DVD and just the other day I got a hold of Ron Fernandez's DVD on french polishing. The GAL Big Red Books also contain quite a few articles on french polishing by Cyndy Burton and others.

What you'll soon find is that everyone has their own variations on actual technique...you just have to play around and find what suits you.

Cheers Martin

I have watched and listened to the Ron F DVD many times. The FP Milburn guide is also great. The 2 have many conflicts in technique. That just means I won't screw up I'll just have done it my way
I start this week Wish me luck.

Yes Ron F and the Milburn brothers do differ alot in some areas. A good example is their different pumicing tecnique. Ron uses wide sweeping movements with the bag while the Milburn brothers stipulate working a small area at a time.

The Millburn tutorial is other than the epoxy fill notation and the use of sandpaper to level a great traditional French polish tutorial. The processes are all the old world processes. I think that is a good thing. That is why I always recommend it as a tutorial.

I am not going to knock anyone’s tutorial or process. But I will say I find some to short cut the process. IMO a few of these short cuts reduce the hardness of the film, depth of luster and or the ability build level as you body. However they all make reasonably good finishes.

I am a believer in the adage “you get out of it what you put into it” the hard work of traditional methods pay off.

To know when you are done requires that you know and understand each of the 4 major processes (spit coating, boding, spiriting, and glazing). Why we do each, what each does, and how they interacts with the prior and following processes.

I have yet to read a tutorial that really breaks down the process in that light. So here is a very brief synopsis.

Spit coat is a seal coat and is the foundation that boding will build on. It serves the propose of sealing off the pore fill and gives the start of the film so that the boding process can work.

Boding is the process of applying the 2# shellac to the surface. Boding does this via a wicking process. Newly applied muneca load (shellac, alcohol and lube oil) are applied to the outer pad and tapped into the inner pad where it melts the residual shellac in the inner. The muneca is rubbed on the surface of the spit coat in a figure eight motion the friction from the spit coat plus pressure on the muneca cause the shellac from the inner pad to wick through the outer pad and melt into the spit coat or previous body session. Understand here that the new shellac, alcohol and lube oil load applied to the outer pad periodically is not the primary shellac laid down during boding. Rather it is the primer required to facilitate the wicking of shellac from the inner pad.

Spiriting or spiriting-off serves a few proposes. It removes access lube oil from the surface it re-melts shellac ridges created during body sessions, and if done correctly and after each body session levels the film as you build it. it needs to be done in a glide on-glide off firm quick straight line motion. it needs to over lap slightly and need to never incounter drag. This higher alcoholl load, in a straight line quick motion is very efective at leveling the film between body sessions. To me this is the most miss understood and most neglected process in French polishing.

Glazing is a blend of body and spirit. It uses loads of less and thinner shellac, a bit more alcohol per load and is more straight with the grain motion than figure eight. This process lays down less new shellac while slowly burnishing the film surface to a high luster

This is way condensed synopsis of the processes. It is the very minimum tht need to be understood.

Now Lars to be a bit more direct to your question typically it will take 6-8 body sessions to build the depth of film most want. The amount of glazing required is dependent on the luster you are going for. The more you glaze the more reflective the luster. When you can see a perfectly clear reflection perfectly in focus you are at the high gloss sheen..

I'll just add one reminder for those new to the process (Michael would have probably said it eventually anyway). Don't rub with an overly wet muneca. You'll mar the finish and take shellac off, creating much more work for yourself.

Spiriting off should happen several time while the building the film thickness. Ideally you should spirit-off after every body session from the second body session on. While you are building the film thickness, there is no need to allow drying for day between body sessions. This accomplishes nothing. I do a body session wait 15 min or so to allow to dry to the touch, spirit-off, wait 15 min or so, and do the next body session.

Now if you plan to level sand with sand paper then a few days to harden prior to sanding is a good idea, but if you are doing a truly traditional French polish then you can go from start to finish non stop with the exception to allow for dry to the touch time between process sessions. After all to get the French polish process to work you are constantly melting and re-melting the top surface film to perform these process.

If you plan to power buff to high gloss as apposed to glazing till you reach high gloss then a week of cure time is appropriate.

Yep the thing to understand here is that each new load you add to the muneca is not added to apply to the film, directly anyway. the propose of each new load is prime the inner core residual shellac and cause it to wick out through the outer muneca. This is why we tap the muneca on the back of our hand or on a piece of paper till we see a spotted pattern rather than a wet solid pattern before we return to boding. IE we work the new load into the inner pad to facilitate melting the residual shellac in the inner pad.

If the outer pad is too wet we wick shellac from the surface on to the pad. We really kind of want it to happen the other way around

I should say here don't tap a newly loaded muneca on the back of your hand if you are using Denatured Alcohol as it can get into you blood system via the skin. Not a real problem if you are using pure grain alcohol

So, Michael, now that Stew-Mac is hooked on your guitar plans (a good thing!), when is the Stew-Mac French Polish DVD starring Michael Payne coming out?

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

probably never you see my face will break darn near any camra lense

Hi Guys,
Is there supposed to be a sanding / leveling step ??
Did I miss something ??
Gregg

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Gregg

Thanks for all the great info! As a newbie I will say your information finished the sentence the DVD and on line tutoral started.
I hit print!

If done properly, thre is no abrasive used after you begin the process, except if you have a grab spot type accident, where your muneca grabs on the surface as you are bodying. Then, some light sanding with 600 grit and oil to remove the little bump it causes, then wipe off and go back to bodying. The spiriting off after the body sessions does the leveling - that, and the glazing at the end of the process.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Thanks Waddy,

Gregg

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Gregg

You could ask Michael Jackson if you can borrow one of his stylish masks.

Thanks a million guys,
Michael, thank you very much for taking the time to explaine the steps. I soooo wish I could come to your seminar.


Sincerely Lars.

Hi Guys,
What does everyone do about small fibers from the muneca getting into the finish ??
I'm using 100% cotton, (diaper) my finish is looking amazing except for the fibers in the finish.
Any suggestions on a favorite muneca material ??
Gregg

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Gregg

I'm using old cotton sheets which are working better than t-shirts I've used previously. I've heard linen is preferable.

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Gabriel Regalbuto
Carlsbad, California
Freedom 35!

Are you getting any fibers in the finish ??

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Gregg

Dipers are a horably too thick weave and is some wha of a 3D weave also.


That should not happen. If you are getting small fibers from your muneca the a couplee things could be wrong. First and the most likely culpret is fiber coming off the edge of the outer pad because you used straight edge sisors or a razor knife to cut the pads. Pinking shears will elimate this issue. Another possibility is you are using new or relitivly new material. When new weeves are crreated many mico length fiber will be trapped in the final pressing of the bolt. these take many washings to get rid of. This is the main reasin I tell all to use well worn muslin or Linen sheets as the fabric of choice. The best possible is the expensive fine linen hakerchiffs. It has the perfet thread count, and thread diameter. Both linen and muslin sheets are the next best choice with long stran 2d weave patterns. Well worn sheets will have long washed away the loose fibers. i do not like t-shirt material because it has a 3D weave. This weave is problematic for two reasons. The 3D weave can and will break down and cause loose fibers. Also the 3D weave traps dust if present and may not appear on the surface face of the pad.

I will say one thing more If you work too dry you are more likely to leave fibers from t-shirt material be hide. I almost never see anyone work too dry but it can happen. Usally I am preaching about working too wet but ther is two sides to the yard stick. both case, too wet and too dry removes more shellac than it applies. So finding a happy medium is key

Thanks for the reply, great info, I'm on a mission now to find some quality worn linen !!
I dont think I'm too dry or too wet, the finish is smooth & very glossy. I'm happy with that.
Thanks
Gregg

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Gregg

Many ways to skin that cat. I do straight passes after every bodying session. This seems to eliminate swirl marks completely.

After about 6-8 bodying sessions I like to sand the whole guitar with 800 grit. I'll just use a very small cork-lined block to which I add a small drop of oil. I then go around the whole guitar in a very light circular motion. French polishing certainly is a very thin finish, but after I've sanded down and start bodying again with a lighter cut of shellac, I'm always amazed at the results of having sanded.

Once I've sanded, I usually put down another 2-3 bodying sessions with the light cut (minimal oil) then I'll start glazing.

Dark woods seem to really love shellac. On my Wenge baritone, I could see a mirror-like reflection after 2 sessions.

I use a silicone free compound to buff out. Just add a little bit to a good old used t-shirt and buff out by hand. If you're getting artifacts in your finish, you could always use lint-free tack cloth.

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

Bingo !!!
Linen did the trick !!
I went to the local fabric store and pruchased there highest grade of pure linen, works like a champ, no fibers !!

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Gregg

congrats! Now next time so that you don’t have to spend so much, go to your local high end hotel and as to speak to the housekeeping manager. Ask for any torn sheets. 99.99% of the time they have one or two set they will give you for free.