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hi all,

I've got a guitar that I want to replace the top and refinish. The finish on the back and sides is fine and I want to leave as is. What kind problems, if any, might I experience with doing this? Will I have more finishing issues around the binding area down the road....or should I just refinish the entire guitar. Thanks for your thoughts!

Ken

Hi Ken the binding will have to be replaced so there will be a need to feather in finish and re-level the sides and full finish on the top.


not laughing at you but the fact I know where this question comes from

Or you could try the John Greven way - go to the Extras page and chose the Retop How-To slideshow

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Ken,

What Michael said.


Dave,

John Greven's method came to my mind too, but I couldn't remember whose it was. Not for the faint-of-heart, but it sure could save a passle of refinish work. Glad you had it. I may try it someday when I'm feeling brave!

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

hi guys just thought i might ask while yer on the subject
coes anyone have a link for binding /rosette chanels by hand?

Wowza, i had not seen Grevens top replacement method before. It looks pretty hairy, but with a very steady hand it could save some touch up work later, i may give it a go one of these times.

I have replaced a large number of tops, usually by routing off the binding partway to expose the joint, and then separating the seam with a knife, or, if the top is not worth saving i plane it off by planing down to the linings with a block plane. Planing is a little bit quicker for me and there is less risk of damaging the linings or blocks.

Touchup is going to be a hassle no matter what, it helps if the finish is one that burns in to itself well(nitro, ktm-9, target usl or em6000, french polish), and it helps if there are not several layers of finish with different colors.

Things to watch out for-
-chip out while routing
-glue seeping onto the finish while glueing new bindings on
-scraping/sanding the new bindings flush, try not to trash the finish on the sides while doing this(its hard)
-when the old top is released, soetimes the sides spring out in funny ways. If it is your guitar, and you can fit it back in thme mold without scratching the finish on the sides too much, it might be a good idea. On valuable instruments, i make a "partial mold", basically a mold 3/4" thick that goes around the sides and keeps them in shape after the top or back is released.
-when routing the top off or routing for new bindings, i put a layer or two of masking tape on the sides where the bearing will contact them, so that the bearing does not dent the finish. You may need to experiment with bearings to find the perfect one, as the tape alters the depth of cut.

John Grevens method bypasses a lot of those concerns, but having never tried it it does look very easy to botch, not something to try on a friday afternoon. One nice thing about the Greven method, is that if you do screw up, you would probably only mess up the bindings/purflings, and you could just re do them at that point.

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Jordan Aceto
Ithaca, NY

My slow connection makes the video a no-go. Maybe I've been using the Greven method for all these years, but here's what I do:

Remove the fingerboard and/or the neck.

Joint the new top. Clamp it to the old top, and scribe around it EXACTLY. Cut it out, and trim it exactly to shape. Now, set amarking gauge to the width of the binding, and cut the new top down to by that much all around.
Install the rosette, and cut the hole.

Rout around the old top inside of the liners. Don't rout through the top over the upper and lower blocks. Remove it by cutting the braces and around the blocks. Remove the top wood from the liners, and scrape/file/chew that surface and the tops of the blocks smooth. Be sure to remove the top purfling, but DON'T TOUCH THE BINDING!

Thickness the new top to the same thickness as the old one, and duplicate the bracing pattern. Inlet the new braces into the liners in the old brace pockets (you hope).

Glue the new top down. Since it's just the same shape as the old to,minus the width of the binding, the guitar should end up in the same shape when you've popped it in. There may be a bit of a gap around the outside between the top and the binding, but you'll fill that in with purfling. This is, in some ways, the trickiest part of the job, but a sharp marking gauge, knife, and small chisel will get it.

Once the purfling is in you can scrape and sand everything smooth. Since you preserved the original binding you don't have to re-finish that or the sides, but only the top. I like to French polish the top, but whatever works for you is fine. You can put the fingerboard/neck on either before or after the refinish, as you like.

This is not a trivial job, obviously, and it calls for some hand tool chops. However, it's actually pretty straightforward and low risk considering. you can, if you like, alter the bracing, to include an A-brace reinforcement in the upper bout, for instance, which will likely reduce the need to do that job on that guitar again. I always 'tune' the new top and often end up with a better sounding instrument.

Dave, thanks A LOT for the link; I too wanted to retop a classical I was given with a big hole on the top, and Greven's method seems quite fun, so to speak hehe

Alan, yes that's pretty much the method but you made it clearer in mind so thanks to you too

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Olivier Gauthier
Montreal, QC

I have no idea what John Greven does, but if this is a plastic bound guitar, you can remove the binding and put it back after you have replaced the top. Purfling will usually come off and go back on, too. I try not to remove the neck, since this is a good opportunity to do an easy reset of the neck angle--when you glue the top to the neck block, you will be setting the angle. This was easier in the old days, when it was kosher to cut the fretboard at the body joint. But you can slip the new top in under the fretboard extension (harder to finish the top), or remove the fretboard extension after cutting the board a couple of frets back from the body to relieve fears about weakening the neck/body connection (I believe the fears of this are worse than the reality, having seen guitars on which I cut the board doing just fine 10 years later).

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

John Greven's web page will not open for me for some reason

But if that is the technique where you rout the top off saving the bindings in place then I can vouch for that. I've done it before and was surprised at how incredibly easy it was to do. I've destructively removed tops before by removing the binding and refinishing - never again. This was a very easy procedure all be it you have to be very careful. When I did it too to make it perfect I had to add a couple purfling strips.