Official Luthiers Forum!

I found a local supplier in Taiwan who makes plywoods for factories that makes GSO's (Guitar Shaped Objects) but also stocks solid top/back/sides which another builder in Taiwan uses to build classical guitars.

I paid 1000nt or about $30 US (actually haven't paid yet... I wanted to do a bank transfer but they wouldn't take it so the boss will have his son come and collect the money from me) for all of this... the wood on the left is scrap wood (termite eaten and orphaned side and stuff, looks like Sapele) but they're good for rosette/binding/headplate/whatever. I not only got enough wood to make the neck (the wood on the far right there are two pieces, one is 120cm long other is only 10cm shorter) and both pieces are at least 4" wide. I was thinking it was just gonna be a neck blank but I guess they didn't want to cut pieces so just sent me the whole board. They are African Mahogany, not perfectly quarter sawn but who cares... Enough wood to not only make an acoustic neck but to make an electric bass neck if I want... The middle it's sonokling (they're a type of Indian rosewood that are plantation grown in Indonesia. Not as good as old growth Indian rosewood but I can't tell the difference) back and side, says it's for classical but it fits the size for Dreadnought so it's all good. In front it appears to be Sitka spruce, doesn't seem so stiff across the grain but very stiff along the grain (is this normal for Sitka spruce? Engelmann seems to be stiffer cross grain) Very rough sawn will have to sand it down (I will not plane it... too risky) .185" thick right now.

Only downside I found is one of the "neck blank" has a slight cup... but the piece is 1.25" thick and I should be able to plane them out right?

All this wood easily costs over $200 from a luthier supplier not to mention shipping...

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Hey, nice score there!

_________________
Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

Very cool Tai!

Actually, you'll be able to get a ton of lining material also out of that mahogany heck stock. If you can, rip it to 3" wide, or even 2-1/2" and you'll get lots of extra's for lining (more than you'll need in a long time).

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

I buy linings because it would be a pain for me to saw all that kerf out... they are not heavy and don't cost too much to ship. It's tonewood/neck blanks and to some extent, brace blanks that costs lots to ship. Maybe I can make braces out of them.. I seen tonewood suppliers sell mahogany brace blank. These mahogany they're not Sapele at all (no ribbon figuring) they look a LOT like Honduran Mahogany. Probably Khaya or something. By the way there are some cups in the backs and side set I recieved I am trying to sticker them but can't find anything suitable... I just placed weight on top of them as of now until I can go find some suitable stickers. I'm not sure what to do about the slight cup in the "neck blank" I am thinking I will first cut them up into neck blanks (will take forever on a jig saw, I hope I can borrow times on a table saw) then plane them flat with the safety planer.

By the way I just looked closer at the neck blank it appears to be flat sawn (it's hard to tell because it's rough sawn), is this ok for necks? I notice a bunch of (in fact all of them) Fender necks are flatsawn.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Nice score Tai Fu!

Hey the term is GLO - guitar shaped object...

Their Indonesian playwood back has a ringing taptone, better than low-graded EIR, maple, or papier mâché. I don't use it because my clients usually suppose all plywoods are acoustically lousy cheapo. As long as the soundboard is solid, a plywood B&S set does save a lot of working labor and one can still make a good guitar out of it.

I'm not sure how plywood saves labor..? I have never constructed a guitar out of plywood but from some of the postings I have seen here, it seems the wood is veneered then glued into ply into a form which is already guitar shaped once done, but it seems that makes more sense if you're in a factory setting or perhaps the factory has pre-made sides that are of plywood. Otherwise don't you bend the plywood as you would a solid side (pipe bender or fox bender)?

Maybe the material is cheaper since you could use inferior wood then veneer it with something good...

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Need no jointing or thicknessing, less pore-filling... etc. It bends a bit easier, too.

I see. I think however a lot of times customers will judge a guitar based on its looks even though it may not mean the guitar sounds better. It's just the way things work... If it's got plywood backs and side customers will think "Well we can get a solid top, plywood back and side guitar for 5000NT so..". Plus I think solid back and side has mojo (even if it doesn't sound as good as a plywood back and side).

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Any chance of a closer pic of the sonokeling.

i have seen some recently that is better than some of the so called old growth stuff coming out of india at the moment.

i am looking for a whole sale source for sonokeling sets (i would rather buy it as sonokeling at source and not through a indian mill as indian rosewood as i did a year or two ago with a bad batch of wood i got from an indian supplier) so i would love to see the wood is like.

as for your neck blanks its probably kayha from the pics it has that fluffy rough sawn look.
a 1.25 neck blank with a bit of a bow is ok it will plane out when you thickness it down to 20mm plus you will be cutting off the ends for a stacked heel right? so that should take some of the bow out.
any peice of wood that is long and thin will want to bow a bit along its length its the nature of the materiel.
dont worry to much about slight bows etc as long as they are not extreme.

with the mahogany plane dont sand it works well a is a joy to plane.
also you will get a much finer serfice and its nice and quick as its a softish wood.

same goes for the top.
i always plane my tops becouse spruce is one of those woods that looks best streight off a sharp plane blade.
its also very tactile so you can control where you take the wood.

plane the face of top and get it perfect and then you can thickness sand from the back to get closer to final thickness.

dont be afraid of planing wood if you take a fine cut you can avoid tearout etc and make your life easier when it comes to finishing.

also get yourself a stanly number 80 scraper plane if you dont allready have one.
it will give the cleanest finish and is awsome for thicknesing woods like cocobolo that are a bit denser and hard to plane.

some suppliers sell mahogany for bracing but its meant for back braces and not for top bracing.
this is a matter of preferance with many builders prefering to use spruce for both the top and back.
i personly use mahogany but its must be quarter sawn and run out free much the same as you would with spruce brace stock.

nice score i am sure you will make another lovely guitar from that lot,

joel.

Here are some picture of the set. The set looks as though it's a little dry (is that even possible in Taiwan??) since the color is a little light but I got no way to verify its moisture content. The back is cupped a little so I was trying to sticker it. I put some mineral spirit (I was going to use water but I was concerned about the water warping the wood) on a portion of the wood to show what it looks like under finish. I also have a piece of "old growth Indian Rosewood" headplate on top to act as a comparison. Like I said, I am sure there is a difference but they look very similar and the lower price of sonokling makes them very attractive as well as being easier on your conscience. You can bet a lot of the manufacturers both high and low quality are using sonokling rather than "Indian Rosewood"!

If you want you can ask cwliu about his suppliers because I am sure they would be thrilled to do a wholesale since their primary business is supplying guitar manufacturers with plywood (for making Guitar Shaped Objects).

Is there any issue in neck blanks being flatsawn? I know Fender used flatsawn wood in ALL of their necks and doesn't seem to have any issue.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Thanks tai fu,

thats a nice set allthough the color match is a little off.
this should evan out a bit when you finish though.

yes i suspect that that the indian companys may well be buying logs from indonesia and mixing it with the shipments.
hence the need to find a good sonokeling supplier.

i would be happy to pay $20 a set for high grade sonokeling if the the quality matches up to that of the indian suppliers.

As for the fender issue yes they do use slab sawn necks but they mainly use hard maple and they are making electric guitars so the string tension is a little lower due to lighter gauge strings etc.
but as anyone who owns a vinage fender will tell they are stable necks very rarely back bow.

there is an argument that says slab sawn necks are stronger than quarter sawn necks (i dont agree with it however) and i have customer allways argues with me about the diference but i have no doubt that quarter sawn wood is more stable and stiffer than slab sawn wood IMHO.
just put two identicle peices of spruce from the same batch together one perfectly quarter sawn and 5% off and you see the diference in stiffness.
granted hardwoods are a little diferent but its the same princaple.

it may also be the reason you have a little bow in the neck blanks as wood movement is much more across the tangenital (slab sawn) face.

i think you can get away with slab sawn maple a little better than slab mahogany as its a stable slab sawn wood and it has the strength to weight ratio,s to cope with the string tension.

i would be worried with mahogany becouse its lighter and the strength to weight ratio may not be as high as maple (i am not sure about though please correct me if i am wrong)

if its sapele be wary of as sapele has a tendancy to split across the rays or tangenital face a bit more easily than most woods and as such may result in a faliure at the head stock on a slab sawn peice.

most of the kayha's are not as stable as honduras and also should be used with care with slabby peices.

all this said i would go for it though as it will be an awsome experience of working with slab wood.
and i am sure it will be stable enough as long as you use a truss rod.

Good luck i hope this project goes well and i cant wait to see the sonokeling when its finished

joel.

I'm thinking it would be more of an issue if you were making the neck really thin, but if you made your necks really thin reinforcements should be used. I thought truss rods are always used for steel string guitar necks... because the wood is not sufficient in counteracting the string tension. If it's really such an issue (as in make or break) Maybe I'll just rip the plank to 1" pieces then glue in strips of bubinga or something and reorient them in quartersawn.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Are you talking about u sin the wrong piece of Kyaha for a netck. 5 Plam 2 ruk mpl ta cumfret lebel. Carbon fiber is a friend.

_________________
"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

Could you please speak English?

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Probably would not hurt to do the neck R.T.(Turner) stylye ; join fingerboard and neck with c.f. added benefit when shaping neck IMO.

_________________
"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

Ok english;



How do I feel about Khaya.The step top on the right in my avatar is khaya on maple, I watched the Quarter sawn board that I made the top of for five years before I used it for the top.One board moved of 4 that I pickt out. I will avoid the part that moved and use the rest off the board. But I Would trust select pieces of Flatsawn for turned and lammed three piece necks. about 8 years ago sanded a bent piece and danged if it didn't move a little more...

_________________
"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...